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4/02/2017 7:17 PM  #1


Question on 65 289

On my 65 289 4bbl edelbrock 600cfm electric choke, I'm at full delay on timing and it still seems that I need more delay. I upgraded to pertronix ignitor and ditched the points.

If I advance the timing my car idles to high. Any suggestion?

 

4/02/2017 7:27 PM  #2


Re: Question on 65 289

What exactly does full delay on timing mean?


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

4/02/2017 9:16 PM  #3


Re: Question on 65 289

Have you determined that everything is working properly inside the distributor?  Vacuum advance cannister functioning correctly?  Counterweights free swinging and not froze up?  I have seen a few of those inner breaker plates that the vacuum advance moves frozen up.   The one that I got from the boneyared to make my HIPO distributor was frozen.   Then you need to determine what type of distributor advance capabilities you have.  

this article at the begining of this thread is the one I used to build my distributors for my engines.  What holds true as far as the mechanics go are basically the same for Duraspark or the old points distributors.  I just did a quick search but cannot find the original source of this article.  It used to have neat pictures attached.   The name of the article is still the same.  Maybe you can find it, in it's original form.  

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread.php?22229-The-Ultimate-Duraspark-Distributor-Timing-Guide


If multiple things can go wrong, the one that will go wrong will be the one that causes the most damage.
 

4/02/2017 10:30 PM  #4


Re: Question on 65 289

MS wrote:

What exactly does full delay on timing mean?

Delay or retard

     Thread Starter
 

4/02/2017 10:31 PM  #5


Re: Question on 65 289

Greg B wrote:

Have you determined that everything is working properly inside the distributor?  Vacuum advance cannister functioning correctly?  Counterweights free swinging and not froze up?  I have seen a few of those inner breaker plates that the vacuum advance moves frozen up.   The one that I got from the boneyared to make my HIPO distributor was frozen.   Then you need to determine what type of distributor advance capabilities you have.  

this article at the begining of this thread is the one I used to build my distributors for my engines.  What holds true as far as the mechanics go are basically the same for Duraspark or the old points distributors.  I just did a quick search but cannot find the original source of this article.  It used to have neat pictures attached.   The name of the article is still the same.  Maybe you can find it, in it's original form.  

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread.php?22229-The-Ultimate-Duraspark-Distributor-Timing-Guide

How do I go about checking to see if the distributor advance parts are frozen up?

     Thread Starter
 

4/03/2017 7:25 AM  #6


Re: Question on 65 289

You set the idle speed with the carb not timing. Try setting your idle timing at 8 degrees advance and adjust carb idle to speed you want. To check vacuum advance on dizzy, disconnect hose at carb, remove dizzy cap and suck on hose. You should see the advance mechanism move as you apply vacuum.


You can lead a horse to water, but you can't get him drunk
 

4/03/2017 1:00 PM  #7


Re: Question on 65 289

I would actually advise that you get your timing ironed out BEFORE trying to set idle speed.  I recently changed carbs and recurved my distributor and found that my timing was WAY off.  This greatly complicated trying to set the carb right.  For whatever reason the factory carb would tolerate it, but always had this annoying stumble off idle and seemed down on power.  I wanted to swap it for something more readily tuneable so I went with an Edlebrock 500.  In the process I found that the timing that had been set was about 50 degrees off.  It never pinged.  I suppose the compression is just low enough that on 93 octane it tolerated it.

So first, use a piston stop to determine actual TDC.  Set the distributor at 0-10 degrees ATDC (its going to change when it warms up, so this will get you close, but once its running and up to temp you can set actual base timing).  You need to know what the compression of the engine is to determine how much timing you want at full advance.  If you pull the rotor off the shaft and remove the breaker plate you will see the mechanical advance mechanism.  This will have a tab and two cutouts marked with something like 10 and 15 or 13 and 18.  The cutout with the tab in it is the one its running off, so if it reads 10 you are getting 20 degrees of mechanical advance, etc.  The lower the compression the more timing it will need, also the less efficient the heads are the more it will need.  I run 38 degrees total.  I set base at 12 degrees BTDC and my mechanical is on the 13 cutout.  I put light springs in it so all the advance is in before 3,000 RPM.  It made a HUGE difference in how much power the car had.

You can flip the plate with the cutouts over if you need the higher or lower advance setting, but it requires removing and disassembling the distributor.  Too much base timing can result in detonation, but if the compression is low enough it probably won't matter anyway.  Keep in mind that factory compression ratios are a bit optimistic.  If the book says 8.5:1 its probably more like 8.3:1, etc.  There was a far wider variance with things like deck height and chamber volume back then than there is today.  HG thickness does make a difference too, so if you've gone thinner its increased, thicker decreased, etc. 

Once you get that at least mostly sorted out you can set your idle and tune the carb.  Trying to do two things at once means both suffer and you will drive yourself nuts like that. 

 

4/03/2017 4:17 PM  #8


Re: Question on 65 289

Sorry to sound like a dummy but I just realized I stated my original post incorrectly. My distributor is fully advanced not fully retarded. What's odd is my cars not pinging or anything it's fully advanced but it still isn't enough. I can't move the distributor any more. The vacume advance is up against the thermostat housing. Could the previous owner maybe installed a different distributor in my engine that maybe isn't correct? Could that maybe be the reason why my car can't advance any more?

     Thread Starter
 

4/03/2017 8:30 PM  #9


Re: Question on 65 289

You can always lift the dizzy enough and rotate it one tooth.


You can lead a horse to water, but you can't get him drunk
 

4/03/2017 8:42 PM  #10


Re: Question on 65 289

Awesome thanks for the help everyone. I'm going to try the above mentioned in the posts and go from there.

     Thread Starter
 

4/03/2017 9:09 PM  #11


Re: Question on 65 289

True74yamaha wrote:

Sorry to sound like a dummy but I just realized I stated my original post incorrectly. My distributor is fully advanced not fully retarded. What's odd is my cars not pinging or anything it's fully advanced but it still isn't enough. I can't move the distributor any more. The vacume advance is up against the thermostat housing. Could the previous owner maybe installed a different distributor in my engine that maybe isn't correct? Could that maybe be the reason why my car can't advance any more?

That jut means the distributor is improperly installed, not that the timing is max advanced.
The vacuum port should point straight forward when the distributor is properly installed, within most normal timing range.
 


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

4/04/2017 9:27 AM  #12


Re: Question on 65 289

True74yamaha wrote:

Sorry to sound like a dummy but I just realized I stated my original post incorrectly. My distributor is fully advanced not fully retarded. What's odd is my cars not pinging or anything it's fully advanced but it still isn't enough. I can't move the distributor any more. The vacume advance is up against the thermostat housing. Could the previous owner maybe installed a different distributor in my engine that maybe isn't correct? Could that maybe be the reason why my car can't advance any more?

You can also just advance the plug wires one terminal over.  There is no #1 terminal on the distributor.  #1 fires when the rotor points at whatever terminal the spark plug wire to the #1 cylinder is on.  Often there isn't much adjustment room for the distributor on a Ford, especially if you have AC; its stuck between the t-stat housing and the compressor with a very limited range of adjustment. 

I'm telling you though, verify TDC on the balancer is actually TDC.  Ford changed timing marks over the years and if the balancer is not matched with the right pointer, or if the outer ring has slipped that timing mark on the balancer might mean next to nothing.  I replaced my balancer with one from Trick Flow with three different sets of timing marks, and then verified TDC with a piston stop.  Now I actually know what timing I'm running, whereas before I think it was set by ear, and that didn't work out so well...

Also, as I said, my car was running about 55-60 degrees of base timing and never pinged.  If the compression is low, which it was for all but HiPo 289s, it won't ping. 
 

Last edited by TKOPerformance (4/04/2017 12:37 PM)

 

4/04/2017 11:28 AM  #13


Re: Question on 65 289

TKOPerformance wrote:

True74yamaha wrote:

Sorry to sound like a dummy but I just realized I stated my original post incorrectly. My distributor is fully advanced not fully retarded. What's odd is my cars not pinging or anything it's fully advanced but it still isn't enough. I can't move the distributor any more. The vacume advance is up against the thermostat housing. Could the previous owner maybe installed a different distributor in my engine that maybe isn't correct? Could that maybe be the reason why my car can't advance any more?

You can also just advance the plug wires one terminal over.  There is no #1 terminal on the distributor.  #1 fires when the rotor points at whatever terminal the spark plug wire to the #1 cylinder is on.  Often there isn't much adjustment room for the distributor on a Ford, especially if you have AC; its stuck between the t-stat housing and the compressor with a very limited range of adjustment. 

I'm telling you though, verify TDC on the balancer is actually TDC.  Ford changed timing marks over the years and if the balancer is not matched with the right pointer, of if the outer ring has slipped that timing mark on the balancer might mean next to nothing.  I replaced my balancer with one from Trick Flow with three different sets of timing marks, and then verified TDC with a piston stop.  Now I actually know what timing I'm running, whereas before I think it was set my ear, and that didn't work out so well...

Also, as I said, my car was running about 55-60 degrees of base timing and never pinged.  If the compression is low, which it was for all but HiPo 289s, it won't ping. 
 

Thank you for the reply. And same goes to everyone else who replied. I'm working a long week so I probably won't get to work on my mustang for about a week 😭. I'll try the above mentioned and go from there thanks everyone. At the rate I'm going I might get my car bash ready finally.

Last edited by True74yamaha (4/04/2017 11:29 AM)

     Thread Starter
 

4/07/2017 7:57 PM  #14


Re: Question on 65 289

Ha ha now this just shows how my luck is lol. I went out to my car to check to test the vacuume advance. I pull out my allen wrenches I go to adjust it and the top falls into my hands. Ha ha. Well I ordered a replacement from Napa auto. I decided to do this because I wanted a cheap fix so i can't start to dice my car. I'm actually not to far a way finally.


Just so everyone knows..  If anyone ever has to change theirs make sure you give Napa or other parts stores a cross reference # it won't come up for some reason if you don't.

     Thread Starter
 

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