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3/30/2017 10:36 PM  #1


2100 carb questions. Idle is extremely rich.

2100 carb on a 250 I6. Custom job.  I have had one on there for 25ish years.  I recently replaced a carb that had 1.14 size venturies (300 cfm) and size 50 jets with one with 1.02 venturies (approx. 245 cfm) and size 43 jets.  The older, larger carb was just ancient and probably way too big for my engine.  The exhaust smell with the smaller carb while the engine is running has the most horrendous, eye stinging rich smell.  It stinks up the outdoors in front of my garage, and my garage, and my house.  The car has been sitting for a couple of years and I cleaned out the carb but I didn't tear it down.  While setting the idle mixture I found that the right needle screw could be turned all the way in with NO effect on the engine idle or vacuum.  I could turn it all the way out and still no effect.  The left idle screw is a different story. I can get it to affect the engine like it should.  I think I have a blockage somewhere for the right idle needle, so where do I look?  With ONE idle screw working WHY is it running so rich? Assuming I clear a tube/hole/channel somewhere and get both idle jets working, do I still have main jets that are too big? The idle jet fuel flow still goes through the main jets first, correct? Main jets are 43s and they only go down to 40. 
Any suggestions?  Thanks, guys.


'66 Fastback since July 27, 1981. Springtime Yellow, originally a 200 cu in, 4 speed. Also a '92 LX Coupe, 5.0, 5 speed.
 

3/31/2017 7:56 AM  #2


Re: 2100 carb questions. Idle is extremely rich.

From what I just found on another forum (Google Ford 2100 jet sizing) it appears that you set yourself up for failure.  Not hard to do, just don't ask how I know. 

By going to the smaller venturi carb you increased the velocity of air at any throttle position, including idle.  So, there is more vacuum on the main jet and it will feed fuel even at idle.  Then you went to a size 40 from a size 50 main jet and according to what I can find, the Ford jet size is like drill sizing which means the 40 is WAY BIGGER than the 50.   Add to that and the fact that one side of the pot has a blocked idle air passage which could make it a lot richer and you have a very rich set up.

So while the old pot was ancient it apparently worked well so you did a BB.  You fixed something that wasn't broke, so now it is.  

Find and fix the idle circuit problem.  Then check the jets...I'm betting the old ones are smaller...and put the smaller ones in the new pot. 

Check this thread.  Sound like he's having the same issue as you.

http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/vintage-mustang-forum/634370-carb-jetting-rich-lean.html

And what's said here about re-drilling jets is true...I've done it many times when tuning VW's.

BB
 

Last edited by Bullet Bob (3/31/2017 7:57 AM)


"you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
 

3/31/2017 8:33 AM  #3


Re: 2100 carb questions. Idle is extremely rich.

And if the gas in the tank has been sitting for a couple of years, its gonna be stinky too.....

 

3/31/2017 10:32 AM  #4


Re: 2100 carb questions. Idle is extremely rich.

TimC wrote:

And if the gas in the tank has been sitting for a couple of years, its gonna be stinky too.....

....especially so with today's ethanol gas!
 

 

3/31/2017 11:53 AM  #5


Re: 2100 carb questions. Idle is extremely rich.

boomyal wrote:

TimC wrote:

And if the gas in the tank has been sitting for a couple of years, its gonna be stinky too.....

....especially so with today's ethanol gas!
 

Gas tank was replaced last summer but the lines weren't.  Fuel flow is fine.  Gas is new this week. 


'66 Fastback since July 27, 1981. Springtime Yellow, originally a 200 cu in, 4 speed. Also a '92 LX Coupe, 5.0, 5 speed.
     Thread Starter
 

3/31/2017 2:34 PM  #6


Re: 2100 carb questions. Idle is extremely rich.

Bullet Bob wrote:

From what I just found on another forum (Google Ford 2100 jet sizing) it appears that you set yourself up for failure.  Not hard to do, just don't ask how I know. 

By going to the smaller venturi carb you increased the velocity of air at any throttle position, including idle.  So, there is more vacuum on the main jet and it will feed fuel even at idle.  Then you went to a size 40 from a size 50 main jet and according to what I can find, the Ford jet size is like drill sizing which means the 40 is WAY BIGGER than the 50.   Add to that and the fact that one side of the pot has a blocked idle air passage which could make it a lot richer and you have a very rich set up.

So while the old pot was ancient it apparently worked well so you did a BB.  You fixed something that wasn't broke, so now it is.  

Find and fix the idle circuit problem.  Then check the jets...I'm betting the old ones are smaller...and put the smaller ones in the new pot. 

Check this thread.  Sound like he's having the same issue as you.

http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/vintage-mustang-forum/634370-carb-jetting-rich-lean.html

And what's said here about re-drilling jets is true...I've done it many times when tuning VW's.

BB
 

I changed the jets to the 50's.  World of difference.  Vacuum is at 16 now instead of 13. My ignorance in assuming bigger number means bigger hole cost me lots o' frustration.  The carb is off a '64 full size Ford and I don't know which model or engine, but the 43 jets came with it when I bought it. The rebuilder probably set it up for use on whatever a full size Ford had in those days. I think with 245 cfm it was maybe a 260, which is why I thought it would be a better match for my 250.  Anyway, I still have a blocked idle circuit somewhere even though I cleaned and found blocked holes on the non-working side. The idle screw has no effect on anything on that side, still. Any suggestions on how to clean the idle circuit or should I just tear it down and give it a good soaking in carb cleaner and re-gasket the poor thing? It is still running rich and I know I have some work to do to find the optimal jet size but things are much better today!

Thanks! 


'66 Fastback since July 27, 1981. Springtime Yellow, originally a 200 cu in, 4 speed. Also a '92 LX Coupe, 5.0, 5 speed.
     Thread Starter
 

3/31/2017 6:23 PM  #7


Re: 2100 carb questions. Idle is extremely rich.

Good, glad you are making some headway.  I don't know if you can even get good ol' fashioned carb cleaner anymore.  A good soak, some brake-clean with a needle-noodle, and some air might just clean it out.  Good luck.

BB


"you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
 

3/31/2017 7:31 PM  #8


Re: 2100 carb questions. Idle is extremely rich.

I'd like to see something in print about Autolite jet sizes being smaller as the jet size number increases.  I find that hard to believe.  If you look at the 4100 jet sizes for an A code 289, then look at them for a 289 hypo, the hypo jet numbers are larger.

 

3/31/2017 8:36 PM  #9


Re: 2100 carb questions. Idle is extremely rich.

I am not familiar with Ford pots at all since my first and only sixties Ford got EFI.  But based on what Muzz wrote it seemed to make sense to me.  So I did a tiny bit of Googleing and found the VMF thread that I included in my response.  Read post NO. 8.  If the jets follow drill sizes...or are close...then they will have a smaller hole as the number goes up. 

And, that seems to be validated by what Muzz posted after he went from 40 to 50 jets.

Actually, I always preferred a Winfield Model S pot.  The idle, intermediate, and high speed jets were adjustable from outside the carb...just turn the needle a couple of clicks.  On the SR model the accelerator pump discharge was also adjustable.

BB
 


"you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
 

3/31/2017 9:15 PM  #10


Re: 2100 carb questions. Idle is extremely rich.

And, as long as I'm windbagging....
Don't forget the pie, ah, I mean don't forget pi.  It's easy to think, " well, I'm only changing the jet size by .005 but you need to remember what effect that has on the area of the hole.  Muzz went from a 50 to a 40 jet and if those are close to drill sizes he actually went from a .070 to a .098 jet.  The area, though, went from .00385 sq. in. to .00754 sq. in....nearly double.  I learned this the hard way when my old 4-Banger racer buddy 'splained the facts to me.  A couple of thousandths can make a huge difference in jets.

Okay, I'll zip it.

BB

Last edited by Bullet Bob (3/31/2017 9:19 PM)


"you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
 

3/31/2017 10:26 PM  #11


Re: 2100 carb questions. Idle is extremely rich.

Don't mean to be contrarian but this new revelation is total news to my experience.  I could well be all wet!


Bullet Bob wrote:

And, as long as I'm windbagging....
Don't forget the pie, ah, I mean don't forget pi.  It's easy to think, " well, I'm only changing the jet size by .005 but you need to remember what effect that has on the area of the hole.  Muzz went from a 50 to a 40 jet and if those are close to drill sizes he actually went from a .070 to a .098 jet.  The area, though, went from .00385 sq. in. to .00754 sq. in....nearly double.  I learned this the hard way when my old 4-Banger racer buddy 'splained the facts to me.  A couple of thousandths can make a huge difference in jets.

Okay, I'll zip it.

BB

 

 

4/02/2017 6:38 PM  #12


Re: 2100 carb questions. Idle is extremely rich.

Leaking power valve can also cause really rich idle..


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

4/02/2017 7:53 PM  #13


Re: 2100 carb questions. Idle is extremely rich.

I will be going through everything. My research is showing that the-bigger-the-number-the-bigger-the-jet is the deal with Ford main jets. I'm scratching my head as to why it's running better with bigger jets. I'm having float troubles now.  I've ordered a brass float and a set of jets to play with. I did clear up the idle circuit blockage.  Both idle circuits are working. I AM GOING TO MAKE THIS CARB CONFORM TO MY WILL!  Thanks for all the help, guys!


'66 Fastback since July 27, 1981. Springtime Yellow, originally a 200 cu in, 4 speed. Also a '92 LX Coupe, 5.0, 5 speed.
     Thread Starter
 

4/02/2017 8:55 PM  #14


Re: 2100 carb questions. Idle is extremely rich.

The jets don't flow at idle, do they?

Clean it. I prefer spray carb cleaner vs soaking. Wear safety glasses and use it to blow through all passages. Put a kit in it and I bet it will work like new.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

4/02/2017 10:10 PM  #15


Re: 2100 carb questions. Idle is extremely rich.

The flow to the idle needles does, indeed, go through the main jets first. And then up the idle tubes in the venturi metering thingy and then back down to the idle needles mixing with air a couple of places along the way.  All done with vacuum.


'66 Fastback since July 27, 1981. Springtime Yellow, originally a 200 cu in, 4 speed. Also a '92 LX Coupe, 5.0, 5 speed.
     Thread Starter
 

4/02/2017 11:03 PM  #16


Re: 2100 carb questions. Idle is extremely rich.

On that clogged Idle circuit. Quick fix that sometimes works, is to get it running with the breather off, rev it up, then with it revved close the choke and hold it a few seconds, usually will suck minor clogs out pretty quick. 

Last edited by bulletbirdman (4/02/2017 11:05 PM)


I made enough money to buy Miami, but pissed it away so fast
 

4/03/2017 3:27 PM  #17


Re: 2100 carb questions. Idle is extremely rich.

bulletbirdman wrote:

On that clogged Idle circuit. Quick fix that sometimes works, is to get it running with the breather off, rev it up, then with it revved close the choke and hold it a few seconds, usually will suck minor clogs out pretty quick. 

^^^^^^^^^^^
Big time shade tree!!! I like it!I do that butt I let it rev up "some" and then slam my hand over the top of the carb. Hold it there until the engine almost dies..remove my had and let'er rev up and repeat the process. Creates enough vacuum to "turn-a-cock-roach-inside-out"...if one happens to be living in your carb!
Another one is to let it start to rev up and then pour some AT fluid in the carb!! Just about choke it self down...then "hit'er again"! Your neighbors and mosquitoes will love you for it. Tends to "clean-out-the-chunks" though.
6s6
 


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

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