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5/18/2017 6:17 PM  #1


Fox body T5 world class Hydraulic throw out bearing installation mods

Hello every one! Here is my very long question [sorry]  I have a 1970 Ranchero with a 302 , some years ago I purchased a t5 conversion kit from one of the Mustang  vendors. I heard a creaking when I would depress the clutch pedal. after a while I noticed some tranny fluid dripping from the bell housing. I pulled the tranny and found the front bearing retainer was cracked around the flange where it bolted to the tranny! I was told a binding from the action of the old z clutch linkage had stressed it and it was recommended that I switch to a cable system. Long story short that didn't turn out so good and I am now focused on moving to hydraulic clutch. I cannot mount the external slave cly as my header is right in the way! SO I am leaning on moving to the internal hydraulic throw out bearing!.  My problem is I know nothing about them! Any one have knowledge on how these are installed and how they are adjusted or not? Any input will be greatly appreciated!  My car drove just fantastic with this transmission. I just need to get this actuation issue resolved! Thank you for your consideration!

 

5/18/2017 7:28 PM  #2


Re: Fox body T5 world class Hydraulic throw out bearing installation mods

I would ask the manufacturer for their instruction sheets. They probably explain it quite well.
Basically it slides onto the bearing retainer and has a link that bolts to the front of th tranny to keep the bearing housing and hoses from rotating.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

5/19/2017 3:40 AM  #3


Re: Fox body T5 world class Hydraulic throw out bearing installation mods

When you replace the bearing retainer, make sure it has the steel tube, not aluminum.    The throwout bearing would
gall the aluminum tube and cause a hard pedal.  The 'Z' linkage should have nothing to do with the cracking of the retainer.   

 

5/19/2017 5:29 AM  #4


Re: Fox body T5 world class Hydraulic throw out bearing installation mods

I had called C & J Mustang to inquire about what may have caused the bearing retainer to crack. They told me  that they had learned since I purchased their "complete kit" That using the old z clutch bracket caused the throw out to bind! That is when I remembered that sometimes I could hear a low creaking sound when depressing the clutch! So I bought into their story! Of course they told me that I needed to change the bell housing to the newer fox body style! so I ordered one and when I couldn't get it to fit on my engine, They explained oh You must have a 177 tooth flywheel you need a 164 tooth flywheel< and so the parts buying express started! So I ordered a flywheel with the correct balance! and of course my new clutch would not fit on the new flywheel so I had to order a 10.5 inch clutch kit! and a new spacer between the engine and bell housing! . So once i had that all together I installed the tranny and started to install the cable clutch kit that i purchased from modern drive line as they had a kit specific for my 1970 torino! Wrong! It was a kit that they said would fit 68 to 71 Torinos! and we all know 68-69 torinos are completely different than 70-71 Torinos . So I informed them that their kit did not fit the 70-71 ones, I got a well I guess we will have to update our data! Ya Think? they offered me a partial refund as I had already installed most of their kit, They of course could not accept it as a return! Well it was better Than what C-Js Offered! Any that is what brought me back to Mustang Steve! He has been the only vendor that I have purchased items from that they fit exactly like he claimed! So I trust his opinions! And all of yours as I know you all have been where I am in one sense or another! 
     So how or where does the hydraulic oil line exit the bell housing???  will I need to do anything special when bolting the clutch master cly to the cowl? Does the old clutch pedal has the correct pivot for the hydraulic m/c ? I ask this as I have run across some kits that has an extra movement to them making the clutch engagement a compound movement? I just want to do this once and be done with it!  I am growing tired of all this experimenting! I had hoped that I was getting correct info on this transmission update! I would add this bit of info, The t5 sat a bit higher than my old 3 manual and I had to cut out a section of the hump for clearance. As my floor had a chopped hole in it where some one had added the 3spd floor shiftier, It actually looked like someone used an axe to cut it open! And no shift boot! I guess they never heard about water puddles and splashing! Any way I went to a junk yard and had them cut the hump out of a fox body mustang, I then just trimmed it to fit in my car and then welded it in place and painted it! I then installed a new shift boot and my car was nice and quiet! So still looking for any input you might have! Thanks again! 

     Thread Starter
 

5/19/2017 9:12 AM  #5


Re: Fox body T5 world class Hydraulic throw out bearing installation mods

Jerry, if you're using a hydraulic throw out bearing then you run the lines thru the bell housing clutch fork window....the fork is eliminated.

Even though you're well down the road on this mod, check out rosehillperformance.com
Glen and brother Steve are t5 experts. In fact they have a hydraulic clutch kit that Glen uses on his mustang. He set it up due to header clearance issues etc. Check out his site, shoot him an email or pick up the phone....they'll help

 

5/19/2017 10:42 PM  #6


Re: Fox body T5 world class Hydraulic throw out bearing installation mods

You know jer.....................I read your post yesterday and I'm STILL scratching my noggin about ....'.how the Z-bar could cause the bearing retainer to crack'!?! The Z-bar just moves the linkage that moves the throw-out bearing that slides on the bearing retainer!
I'm a skeptical sorta fella and I tinks they were just "sell'in-you-parts"! I could be worng.......(I was once....I thought I made a mistake butt I didn't).
I bet if you just changed the retainer for a steel one and lightly greased that "puppy" it would work "slicker'n snott".
We'll prolly never know because you are in way too deep to switch up now, and I don't blame you. Jus' say'in.
I do know I've been using the old stock Z-bar set-up with the stock Alum. bearing retainer snout hickey for several years with ZERO issues.........interesting.
Welcome to the best forearm on the net!!
6sally6 


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

5/20/2017 7:03 AM  #7


Re: Fox body T5 world class Hydraulic throw out bearing installation mods

OK, Guys First thank you for your input! Second I do not doubt that I was given a raspberry by C-J Mustang! We all know the old saying about hindsight... So I am at the point that I want to get a system to activate my clutch installed in my car that functions properly! The first bearing retainer that cracked was an aluminum one! and I am betting that the new one that is on it right now is aluminum! So I am gaining the wisdom of the stock original bearing retainer is not good and was most likely the source of my failure in the first place? Or do I have a transmission issue? Yeay ! I spent $1200.00 for nothing!  Yeah I got that! You all notice that I am no longer seeking advice from their techs right??  I got that as well! That is the reason why I am here ! I have learned through experience that Mustang Steve is a person that I can trust his input! He has been there , Done that and you all his  friends and fellow customers are as equally Knowledgeable and honest! Which I am truly grateful for!  
      Now for the issues at hand First question if I remove the clutch fork and run the line through that hole, Should I fabricate a cover for the clutch arm hole?? I would think leaving it open could allow a lot of excess crap in the bell housing to maybe cause an issue down the road? 
   Next issue 6sally6 you recommend lightly greasing the bearing retainer tube with grease?? Do you think long term that the grease will collect dust dirt etc to gum up the bearing retainer tube??? what do you all think about a graphite dry powder as a lubricant for the slide tube?? good idea? or are you nuts??? just thinking way ahead of where I am at! again Thank you all for your input and sharing your experiences with me! I do not mean to be a pest, I am just being cautious as I want to do this only one more time!  I am one of those pains that just absolutely hates to redo a job! I would rather spend twice as much time double checking things than speeding through it and having to have to go back and tear something apart for a second time! Let alone a third time ! Which is where I am at right now! And for all of you thinking the why, Here is an interesting bit, I only put 1600 miles on this new transmission before i had this problem!  Sucks right???  and I am scratching more than my head over this!

     Thread Starter
 

5/22/2017 10:16 PM  #8


Re: Fox body T5 world class Hydraulic throw out bearing installation mods

The new Ford throwout bearing comes with a groove that is factory packed with grease. Polish the retainer shaft and slide the bearing on using grease as Ford intended.
Recommnd a MS cable clutch kit with T5 bellhousing and release arm and bearing. The cover is available from Ford.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

5/23/2017 8:07 AM  #9


Re: Fox body T5 world class Hydraulic throw out bearing installation mods

Well OK , Looks like I am still doing some research, Last recommendation is to use t5 bell housing ' release arm and bearing along with a MS cable clutch kit!  Which is 3 steps backward! As I am most certain that I started off stating that I have refocused on installing a hydraulic throw out bearing as the cable kit did not work out and that I could not use an external slave cylinder due to my header lacation! So I have to acknowledged that I do own a Ranchero and not a mustang! But IT is similar to the Mustang! Any way I am still working on identifying what is the correct internal throw out bearing that I need to use and of course where to purchase it would be helpful! every one that I have located seams to have something that excludes it from being used on the fox body world class t5??? Thank you for your time and suggestions! 

     Thread Starter
 

5/23/2017 8:46 AM  #10


Re: Fox body T5 world class Hydraulic throw out bearing installation mods

You're clearly getting frustrated, and we've all been there so we get it, but I think the reason you haven't gotten any answers about using a hydraulic throwout bearing in a T5 is probably because no one here has used one on a T5 before... so we just don't know the answer to your question.  That being the case, they were trying to provide helpful alternatives.

I've stayed out of it, but I agree with 6Sally6, that your easiest and cheapest solution would be to stay with the z-bar and just replace the aluminum bearing retainer with a steel one.

That being said, it is certainly your choice whether or not to press on with the install of a hydraulic throwout bearing.  There is certainly nothing wrong with pursuing a new option, but don't get mad when you don't get a lot of help when breaking new ground because the rest of us don't have any experience with it.  We'd help if we could, but we just don't know.
 

Last edited by Michael H. (5/23/2017 8:55 AM)

 

5/23/2017 9:35 AM  #11


Re: Fox body T5 world class Hydraulic throw out bearing installation mods

Jer.......Seems like (a few years ago) I saw on Daze's website how he had fab'ed up a bracket, and such for a hydraulic clutch set-up. I could be worng....I was once.
You'd think somebody on You Tube woulda done one!??!
Just throwing out possibilities.
FoMoCo never made a set-up that could be used in your case?!
6s6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

5/23/2017 11:19 AM  #12


Re: Fox body T5 world class Hydraulic throw out bearing installation mods

Jerry, I can understand your frustrations. Have had a few of my own. I'm with 6Sally6, not sure how the movement of the Z-bar linkage can crack the bearing retainer.
It seems like the cheapest solution is to install the steel bearing retainer and drive it a while longer. Whatever direction you go, it appears another bearing retainer in in your future, might as well be steel.

You may not be overly impressed by Modern Driveline, but I sourced my Hydraulic clutch mechanism and everything else for the TKO 600 I bought. The master cylinder is Wilwood piece that I'm still in the process of installing. I do have the instructions for the master cylinder scanned and could email them to you if you like to see the pedal side of things. The throw out bearing is a Tilton unit and I haven't scanned the instruction. Here is a link for the install and set-up of the TO bearing. It took awhile to load on my PC. Watch the video of how to set up clutch clearance. From the video, the hose will exit same place it enters the bell housing, top hose is the bleeder. I would secure it in some fashion, they didn't cover it in the video. The video from 2 guys garage is lacking.

http://www.moderndriveline.com/catalog/internal_hydraulic_slave.htm

 American Powertrain is another outfit that should have a good idea of what your asking.


John  -- 67 Mustang Coupe 390 5 speed
 

5/24/2017 7:13 AM  #13


Re: Fox body T5 world class Hydraulic throw out bearing installation mods

OK Guys and Gals! First I am not mad! Way to late for being mad and even if I was, I couldn't be mad at any of you guys! You are trying to point me in a direction that you all all familiar with! I get that!  SO I guess maybe I haven't provided all of the details of where I am at! 
     First I have already replaced the front bearing retainer and throw out out bearing and reinstalled the transmission! Does the bearing retainer have a steel tube??? I have no idea! It was what CJ Mustang sold me as a replacement! In fact I have a spare, yes they sold me 2 of them, So I can and will check to see if it a steel tube retainer!  Second I have already removed the z bar and all of the mechanical linkage! Including the return spring on the clutch pedal! [ pretty much the reason that I do not sound very happy of going back to what I had] Third I am not angry with Modern drive line! In fact I have been in contact with them on what to do , what to do!  My anger or at least my frustration is with CJ mustang and their TECHs they are the ones that got me in this cable conversion in the first place! And yes they just loved selling me all of those expensive new parts, Bell housing ,flywheel clutch kit etc, etc!  
     And now where am I headed! well it looks like I will end up installing an external slave cly and hydraulic clutch kit with a master cly etc.  Modern drive line has an external slave cly that mounts on the back side of the clutch arm and pushes the arm instead of pulling it! This looks like a good direction the go! Now I have not made the final decision yet. But it is the way that I am leaning! I just hope that I do not need the return spring on the clutch pedal! That was one very stiff spring! Thanks again every one for your patience and understanding and your input!  
   And last No one is more frustrated with how the z bar could have caused my problem in the first than I am! But I wasn't certain of the cause and I accepted the advice of a so called tech that really has no business in giving out tech advise! I just bet he gets a commission on the parts that he sells! Just saying!!

     Thread Starter
 

5/24/2017 9:11 AM  #14


Re: Fox body T5 world class Hydraulic throw out bearing installation mods

Jerry, If you're running a diaphragm style pressure plate (not the old style 3-finger type) it will work fine with the z-bar, without the big underdash spring.... That's how I'm running my T-5 in my mustang (z-bar, diaphragm pp, no underdash spring).

Again... not trying to push you toward that method... just making sure you know that's an option.

Last edited by Michael H. (5/24/2017 9:16 AM)

 

5/24/2017 8:10 PM  #15


Re: Fox body T5 world class Hydraulic throw out bearing installation mods

Michael H. Thanks for the info. I am leaning towards the hydraulic conversion. Not 100% certain why I am stuck on making this modification . But I am , So I am now just trying to figure out the who and and what! Meaning just what do I need to bring it all together and finalize! Thanks again  

     Thread Starter
 

5/25/2017 7:56 AM  #16


Re: Fox body T5 world class Hydraulic throw out bearing installation mods

jerry wrote:

Michael H. Thanks for the info. I am leaning towards the hydraulic conversion. Not 100% certain why I am stuck on making this modification . But I am , So I am now just trying to figure out the who and and what! Meaning just what do I need to bring it all together and finalize! Thanks again  

No harm in that.  My '91 F150 has a hydraulic TO bearing and it works great!
Keep us posted on what kit you use and how it works out!  It may turn out to be a great option.

 

Board footera


REMEMBER!!! When posting a question about your Mustang or other Ford on this forum, BE SURE to tell us what it is, what year, engine, etc so we have enough information to go on.