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5/22/2017 4:19 PM  #1


Borgeson conversion with MS lower bearing

I'm sick of the manual steering.  I purchased a Borgeson kit last week and when I got it the whole steering column thing seemed totally Mickey Mouse, so I picked up on of MS's lower  bearing kits.  The lower floor mount isn't right for my '67 either, but I'm going to fab up one that fits rather than take Borgeson's tech advice of just install the '65-'66 mount plate over your '67 one.

So my question (likely my first question anyway) is with the MS lower bearing kit all that cut and try stuff is out the window right?  If my thinking's right here all I have to do is maintain the bell to shaft measurement at the top, and cut the column tube such that the clamp below the bearing at the bottom is a little bit above the splines.  Then when I install the column just engage the rag joint fully, secure the column such that the rag joint isn't being pulled on, and tighten everything. 

Other than this part of the install the kit seems straightforward.  At least before the wrenches come out...

 

5/22/2017 9:59 PM  #2


Re: Borgeson conversion with MS lower bearing

The end of the column will be on the interior side of the firewall if the shaft collar is used, so take that into account when you fab up a lower bracket. The Borgeson bracket is a total joke.  Be sure to torque the steering wheel to the new shaft to properly establish the steering wheel - bell gap. Usually about 0.080" gap.
The idea is to capture the shaft inside the column as held by the steering wheel at the top ( or c-clip on some cars) and the shaft collar at the bottom so the shafy cannot move up or down.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

5/23/2017 4:25 AM  #3


Re: Borgeson conversion with MS lower bearing

Okay, that's good to know.  My plan was to mock everything up before fabricating the bracket so I was sure to build it properly.

In general the Borgeson kit seems to be of high quality, but the lower bracket and the bushing deal at the bottom of the column seems like an afterthought.  I guess being the only game in town doesn't push you to innovate, which is why communism doesn't work, but for like $900 I expected a little more. 

Thanks for the help.

     Thread Starter
 

5/23/2017 6:41 AM  #4


Re: Borgeson conversion with MS lower bearing

TKO,
Does your 67 have a straight column, or a tilt away column? I've been considering switching my leaky factory power steering to the borgeson, but I'm not sure if the borgeson will work on a tilt away column.

 

5/23/2017 1:17 PM  #5


Re: Borgeson conversion with MS lower bearing

Its just the standard non-tilt column.  I considered installing a tilt column, but in truth the wheel is properly positioned (or I'm just so used to it that it seems that way), so I decided to save the money and spend it elsewhere. 

     Thread Starter
 

6/02/2017 7:04 PM  #6


Re: Borgeson conversion with MS lower bearing

Here's what I just did on the '66 - think it turned out OK.

I cut the tabs off of the Borgeson plate that you're supposed to use the hose clamp on and cut an angle on the fat end of a 2 1/2" ID to 2 1/4" ID exhaust adapter that happened to be laying in a corner of the shop and welded that to the Borgeson plate with a nut on the top if the 'adapter' collar for a set screw.




Mustang Steve bearing in end of cut down column.



Test fit. Nice and solid. I'm going to replace the sheet metal retaining screws with blind rivetnuts. And repaint the column of course.



(Pinto!)
 

6/02/2017 7:47 PM  #7


Re: Borgeson conversion with MS lower bearing

Very nice. I'm a fan of rivnuts too.

 

6/03/2017 5:10 AM  #8


Re: Borgeson conversion with MS lower bearing

Nice work and I am sure that is much stronger than the original. I wish I had thought of that modification.


Bash Host MSBB XVI.       BobC    1966 Mustang Coupe
 

6/03/2017 5:52 AM  #9


Re: Borgeson conversion with MS lower bearing

Neat!  Thanks for the idea, I really like that better than the hose clamp!  Working on that among other things today.  Got the box installed last week.  I cut the column to length and realized it looked like crap, so I did the clean, sand, prime, and paint dance on it. Fuel line interferes with the PS pump (of course), so I need to make up a new one of those too.  "Bolt on", heh, what ever is?

     Thread Starter
 

6/03/2017 9:42 AM  #10


Re: Borgeson conversion with MS lower bearing

I like seeing those fabrication pics. Good job, McStang

I bet a decent design lower bracket would sell as well as the lower bearing kit.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

6/03/2017 8:40 PM  #11


Re: Borgeson conversion with MS lower bearing

McStang, Nice job on the lower modification.  You should offer them for sale to Borgeson to add to their kit.


Mustang Steve Bash in Gruene, Texas September29-30, 2023
 

6/03/2017 11:12 PM  #12


Re: Borgeson conversion with MS lower bearing

Why not swap a 68 column into your 67. My Borgeson installation in my 68 was a snap with that column. Been working great for almost five years now.


68 coupe - 351W, 4R70W, 9" 3.25 -- 65 convertible - 289 4v, C4, 8" 3.00
 

6/06/2017 1:42 PM  #13


Re: Borgeson conversion with MS lower bearing

I've had the Borgeson in the car for a few years and am happy to finally be able to correct the half-assed install I did back then. Thanks for the bearing setup MS, worth every penny.


(Pinto!)
 

6/06/2017 3:09 PM  #14


Re: Borgeson conversion with MS lower bearing

Honestly, cutting down the column tube is not hard at all.  I measured it twice and cut it once with my chop saw and it came out perfect.  In truth, nothing's really that hard, just some of its time consuming.  I spent about 1-1/2 hours fabricating a new fuel line from the pump to the carb, which now runs behind the AC compressor.  That wasn't planned.  It took me three trips to the parts store to get the right belt for the pump, but finally got that sorted.  Turns out I have a 1-1/8" pitman arm instead of the 1" one I thought I had.  I already had the box mounted so I just sourced a 1" arm, but time taken in tracking that down, shipping, etc.  Working on fabricating a floor plate to replace the Borgeson one that's a joke.  I should have the car back on the road this weekend.  Not bad really for a total change out of a major system with fab work.  Its a pretty good system it seems, but they skimp on the detail stuff, and their instructions flat out suck.  Really?  $900 and not a single picture?  I found a decent write up on CJ Pony Parts site that was for a '65-'66, but still 95% applicable that helped a lot.  Really looking forward to it being done and being able to drive the car a lot easier. 

     Thread Starter
 

6/06/2017 4:47 PM  #15


Re: Borgeson conversion with MS lower bearing

McStang wrote:

Here's what I just did on the '66 - think it turned out OK.

I cut the tabs off of the Borgeson plate that you're supposed to use the hose clamp on and cut an angle on the fat end of a 2 1/2" ID to 2 1/4" ID exhaust adapter that happened to be laying in a corner of the shop and welded that to the Borgeson plate with a nut on the top if the 'adapter' collar for a set screw.




Mustang Steve bearing in end of cut down column.



Test fit. Nice and solid. I'm going to replace the sheet metal retaining screws with blind rivetnuts. And repaint the column of course.


Very nice work, Matt.  Keep plugging away...only 3.5 months 'til the Bash.  That's pretty much the way I did mine except I cut slots in the firewall tube and use a hose clamp to hold it tight to the column...rock solid.

BB

Last edited by Bullet Bob (6/06/2017 4:49 PM)


"you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
 

6/17/2017 7:10 AM  #16


Re: Borgeson conversion with MS lower bearing



It took a while to get it right.  I think I had the column in and out of the car 6 times to get the angle right, but here's the finished product.  I reproduced the base plate in 14 gauge steel, then took a 2-1/4" to 2-1/2" exhaust adapter (thanks for that idea BB), and modified it.  I found the area between the two diamters in the coupling was actually smaller than the 2-1/4" part and the column would not slide though it.  A concave fillet had resulted from the forming process, so I cut the section of the fillet out, then shortened and modified the top section to have two wings before welding it back to the lower section.  When I started cutting the angle into it I had to extend the bottom side because the fitting was too short, so I rolled some more 14 gauge steel around a mandrel and welded it to the coupling.  There's about 2" difference in length top to bottom.  Then I just bent up a simple clamp from some 14 gauge steel.  The idea was that this would look like something that plausibly would have been used in the '60s.  Quite happy with it, and its supposed to rain today so looks like I may actually get a chance to install it.  I'll post back with end results.

Last edited by TKOPerformance (6/17/2017 7:17 AM)

     Thread Starter
 

6/18/2017 1:12 PM  #17


Re: Borgeson conversion with MS lower bearing

I have an Ididit column that I recently acquired. It has the same plastic bushing like Borgeson uses.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

6/19/2017 8:53 AM  #18


Re: Borgeson conversion with MS lower bearing

Ron68 wrote:

Why not swap a 68 column into your 67. My Borgeson installation in my 68 was a snap with that column. Been working great for almost five years now.

Ron,
Do you have to cut the column tube down on the 67/68 Borgeson install, like you do on the earlier cars? I'm wanting to switch to Borgeson, but I have a 67 tilt away column with the rag joint and I really don't want to modify my column tube.

John

 

6/19/2017 2:56 PM  #19


Re: Borgeson conversion with MS lower bearing

I don't think you have to cut the column tube down if you have a rag joint.  My '67 required cutting because it was an early style steering box, where the shaft was integral (no rag joint).  It also has a 1" sector shaft. 

I pulled up Borgeson's instructions for the 999021 kit, which is for '68-'70 Mustangs with manual steering, and it has a vague "you may need to trim the outer column tube to get the inner column to collapse enough to install the rag joint" sentence in it.  I've found in general their instructions are a joke.  No pictures, not even a decent install video on their website.  At the cost of these kits they skimped on some details and don't provide good instructions.  They get away with it by being the only game in town.  Your other options are rack and pinion (expensive and most kits increase your turning circle), or factory style (which after driving a factory PS car once I hated so much I left my car with manual steering for 20+ years).  I think Borgeson's got a good system, just don't expect a quick weekend install and the car's back on the road ready for next week.  Mine's been down for going on 3 weeks now, though I'm now down to flushing and bleeding the system and test driving it.  That's not all work mind you, that's when I've got time, but I rarely get 3-4 hours straight where I can puzzle through something so if I'm stuck I spend 15 minutes the next time I can work on it figuring out where I left off. 

     Thread Starter
 

6/19/2017 5:03 PM  #20


Re: Borgeson conversion with MS lower bearing

I have a 68 column in the 66.  No column cutting but I did have to lengthen the locating slot at the dash clamp.  I had a 68 box with rag joint in it before the Borgeson and I was able to collaps the inner shaft just enough to connect to the Borg. box. 

BB
 

Last edited by Bullet Bob (6/19/2017 5:08 PM)


"you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
 

Board footera


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