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9/25/2017 9:24 AM  #1


Best Front End Upgrades... Opinions?

So while doing all this work, I have found my front end is shot.  All ball joints and bushings are done or rotted out to the point where they are straight up gone.  So new bushings and tie rod ends are a must.  Springs, too.  Shocks are $20/each KYB's that I put in just to stay on the road so don't mind those going bye-bye.  

So I figure I'd employ the 4 most expensive words int he English language - "While you're at it...":

What are everyone's favorite front end suspension/steering upgrades? And even if I get height adjustable coilovers (not a forgone conclusion, though, based on feedback I may get) is the Shelby drop worth it, or just get the reduction in height from the adjustment at the coilovers?

Due to the body work, custom paint, new engine build, etc. I'd ideally like to keep the whole shebang under $1k for parts, but still want to hear what everyone says since that is flexible...

Last edited by Big Tag (9/25/2017 9:24 AM)

 

9/25/2017 9:33 AM  #2


Re: Best Front End Upgrades... Opinions?

Shelby drop for handling.
Borgeson for steering.  Does away with the sloppy ford power steering.
Moog tie rods, Idler arm best quality.
Dr. Gas 620 progressive lowering springs.
Bilstein shocks.
I have the above and am very happy with the ride and handling.


Mustang Steve Bash in Gruene, Texas September29-30, 2023
 

9/25/2017 11:47 AM  #3


Re: Best Front End Upgrades... Opinions?

Buy Moog parts where you can. I have the Borgeson box too, I never saw a factory PS set-up that wasn't leaking. If the upper control arms are Ford parts, keep them to rebuild. I have heard stories of the repops cracking, but I can't provide a specific instance or area prone to crack.

There was a tip on MustangSteve website on mods to make to the upper control arm shaft for greasing. Its very helpful, but with the changes to the site, I couldn't' find it.


John  -- 67 Mustang Coupe 390 5 speed
 

9/25/2017 2:03 PM  #4


Re: Best Front End Upgrades... Opinions?

I did my suspension a couple years back. Going by my experience on my car. First, take some time and really understand the basics of handling and what you're looking for. The Arning drop is the single best thing you can do. It's basically free. If you did nothing else, this is the one thing to do and it makes a big difference. It takes away that plowing feel and gives more of that go cart feel. The whole idea of the Arning drop is you want the upper ball joint higher then the upper control arm mounting location basically. This gives you that negative camber curve. It also raises the roll center which is a imaginary axis that the front of the car wants to roll on. The higher it is the more stable to a point. As far as all the components, obviously you want them in tip top shape. Going into the $$$ stuff. Definately good shocks. Something like Koni or Bilstein or equally good quality. They do make a difference. I'm very fond of adjustable struts. The main reason it takes away the squishiness of the rubber biscuits. The compress erratically which changes caster, camber and toe. With the rod ends on the struts, they act consistently no matter what. No matter how hard you brake or don't. Next up, improved spring pearches, either the roller bearing Opentracker sell or the other ones with Delran bushings. I have the Opentracker roller bearing version. I believe they make the car ride better and will outlast the stock rubber bushing replacement. Off course a 1" front bar. You do not need a rear bar. Leaf springs unlike coil springs do provide some amount of anti roll properties. I would recommend making the range of caster and camber as large as you can. The adjustable struts help but a word of caution I'll get to. The adjustable struts are good for extra caster on 65/66 cars besides the shims used. On 67 & later they'll allow more accurate and easier caster adjustment. 67 & later do not use shims but there is no reason why you could not use them to add more caster. On 65/66 cars camber is set with shims but you start to run into a compromise between caster and camber. Opentracker sells a camber kit for 65/66 cars. It's not expensive but you will have to do some welding. The problem with these cars is a lack of range for caster and camber. Using what I said will give you more options. These cars seem to drive really nice with 3* positive caster and .5* negative camber

Now the spendy stuff. Roller bearings! My whole front suspension is Street or Track. Everything is bearing. Do you need it? No. But what it does bring to the table is a whole new world of driving experience. Ride is improved significantly You're not getting stored energy in bushings that resist movement then snap back. You get a more supple and compliant ride. You get a very precise feel. You do not get a harsh ride or noisy ride. My warning on the adjustable struts before was about the stock lower arm rubber bushing. This bushing takes a beating between going up and down and as well as following the arc of the strut rod. Tighten up on the strut for extra caster, you'll wear the lower bushing out quicker. With the bearing in the lower arm, it allows free movement in all directions and adding extra caster is a non issue. I also have a roller bearing idler arm. Some people say it's a waste of money and a waste of time and not needed. Is a $10K paint job a waste of money and not needed? To me it is. I do not regret for one second what I did nor would I do much if anything different. I am not a rich person, this was hard earned money from selling a lot of scrap!

Bottom line, you can make your car drive and handle really well cheaply. You can make improvements as you decide. These cars were designed for bias tires and the old alignment specs are even worse when used with radial tires. Make the suspension as adjustable as you can IMO. My last $.02 and this is highly, highly recommend from my experience. Buy a caster/camber gauge and learn to do your own alignment. Don't know how? What makes you think the car at the chain tire store does on these cars? They only work on strut. It's not hard and really worth it! I learned to do my own.

Oh, I wanted to add something about the Arning drop. It won't put the susension into a negative camber curve with stock arms. It will improve the curve and make it better then what it was. The problem is the angle of the ball joint on the stock arm. Any more then 1" and you'll break the ball joint. After market arms will allow to lower the arms even more but for the street, I don't think you'll need it. It also has side effects such as lowering the car. The Arning drop will lower the front by about 5/8" due to the increased distance between the 2 spring mounting points. it will or can have more effect of bump steer too as you start to lower the car more.

Last edited by Huskinhano (9/25/2017 2:09 PM)


I'm not a complete idiot.....pieces are missing. Tom
 

9/25/2017 2:22 PM  #5


Re: Best Front End Upgrades... Opinions?

Just want to say +1 to everything Huskinhano said!

Arning/Shelby drop number one mod.
Then add bearings (spring perch and lower control arm, idler arm).
Then add stiffness (export brace, monte carlo bar, sub frame connectors, beefed up cross member).
Anti-sway bar(s) are a good add as well (1" front, and if you have a convertible 3/4" rear).
Disc brakes (at least fronts, for modulation control).
 


65 convert "298" (.060), 4sp, disc, quick steer, roller perches, adj strut rods, sph bearing lower, F&R anti-roll bars.
 

9/25/2017 5:30 PM  #6


Re: Best Front End Upgrades... Opinions?

Based on my recent experience with diy wheel alignment I would definetly go with roller spring perches and adjustable struts. Another thing I am considering is adjustable upper control arms. I am just starting to research it myself so that is just a suggestion. Other than that I'll repeat what has already been said. Quality parts and the Shelby drop.


"anyone that stops learning is old, whether at twenty or eighty"Henry Ford
 

9/25/2017 6:19 PM  #7


Re: Best Front End Upgrades... Opinions?

BillyC wrote:

Based on my recent experience with diy wheel alignment I would definetly go with roller spring perches and adjustable struts. Another thing I am considering is adjustable upper control arms. I am just starting to research it myself so that is just a suggestion. Other than that I'll repeat what has already been said. Quality parts and the Shelby drop.

Beware with adjustable control arms. What ever you do to one side, you should be doing to the other. Both sides should mirror each other. You should not be using adjustable control arms to simply make alignment easier. You will end up with control arms that are different in over all length with different characteristics. I have Street or Track. Both sides are the same length, they are adjustable and I did shim them to equal out both sides. I have 4* caster. The big problem with these cars is the lack of caster and what ever you can do to get more is good.
 


I'm not a complete idiot.....pieces are missing. Tom
 

9/25/2017 8:40 PM  #8


Re: Best Front End Upgrades... Opinions?

Same as above butt..........go manual steering!
These cars AIN'T that heavy and unless you have modified the front to hold big "road-packer tires" you can't put a front tire on it that makes it hard to turn. (even when parallel parking..as soon as the car MOVES the steering gets EZ'r and manageable.)OR a 429 "shotgun"/Boss/SOHC engine.
Manual steering boxes don't normally leak either!!!
6s6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

9/25/2017 9:13 PM  #9


Re: Best Front End Upgrades... Opinions?

6sally6 wrote:

Same as above butt..........go manual steering!
These cars AIN'T that heavy and unless you have modified the front to hold big "road-packer tires" you can't put a front tire on it that makes it hard to turn. (even when parallel parking..as soon as the car MOVES the steering gets EZ'r and manageable.)OR a 429 "shotgun"/Boss/SOHC engine.
Manual steering boxes don't normally leak either!!!
6s6

 
I second Sal's comment on manual steering. If I had had the funds when I redid my front suspension and steering I would have gone with a rack and pinion. Manual of course.


"anyone that stops learning is old, whether at twenty or eighty"Henry Ford
 

9/26/2017 10:34 AM  #10


Re: Best Front End Upgrades... Opinions?

The problem with manual steering is that most people don't know how to. It sounds silly but it's true. There's a art to it. Just like 6sally6 said. Have the car moving, even slightly. Next, watch your tire pressure. You know pretty quick when a tire starts to get soft. We've just got to complacent about everything with automatic this and that. We no longer do a physical inspection, get personal with the car.

Again as 6sally6 said, these cars are light. About 800 to 1000 pounds lighter and that's significant. When less weight, you don't need as much assist with anything if at all. With less weight and improved suspension, you don't need as big of a tire either. I run 215/60/15 and I'm fine with them. I have a 16:1 box, 4° caster along with a roller bearing idler arm and fresh high quality synthetic grease in the steering box, it's quite easy driving. Even at lower speed parking, it's not a problem. How much time do you actually spend parallel parking?

My 66 is all manual for a reason. It's refreshing to drive something that really puts you in touch with what the car is doing.


I'm not a complete idiot.....pieces are missing. Tom
 

9/26/2017 1:42 PM  #11


Re: Best Front End Upgrades... Opinions?

I'm old and feeble with arthritis, somehow manual steering does not cut it for me.
On that note I love my EPAS, dial  it up for parking turn it down for the highway.


Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
 

9/26/2017 7:11 PM  #12


Re: Best Front End Upgrades... Opinions?

Pass on the manual steering.  If I want to drive something I'm in that much touch with I have a '17 Model T.  Manual spark advance adds a whole other dimension to driving.

I had manual for years.  That's what the car had.  I had all the parts to convert it to power, but having driven a couple cars that had the factory setup I decided not to convert it.  The factory system was leak prone and provided WAY too much assist, leaving the car numb with no road feel or feedback.

20+ yeas later you've got options.  The R&P setups are IMO a waste of money.  By the time you're done you could easily have $3k+ in a setup like that, and a lot of them increase your turning circle.  But, the Borgeson setup can be had for about $1k, is a straightforward install, maintains factory turning radius, and offers enough assist, but not too much.  Winner, winner...you know the rest.

After considerable research I'm not sold on all the roller bearing stuff either.  The concern for me is that roller bearings are meant to turn through full revolutions constantly.  That's how they stay lubricated and keep from wearing out.  BUT, suspension arms don't move like that.  Those bearings only see partial rotation.  My concern would be wear in short order.  I love the idea of removing bind, just not sold on the method.

Anything with heim joints faces the same problem, so the whole tubular arms with heims as attachment points I'd pass on as well. 

In truth, the Shelby drop makes a huge difference.  You aren't going to see a huge ride height reduction from it though.  Dropping the upper A arms 1" doesn't drop the ride height 1".  The spring sits on the hypotenuse of a triangle and you are in effect altering the length of one side of that triangle, so the result is a slight reduction in ride height, but not the full distance.  You might see 3/8" drop.  If you want to change ride height do it with the springs.

In general, the suspension is an area where you can easily tie up $10k dollars without making the car handle markedly better than a car where $2k was spent.  The key is matched parts and sensible mods that have been known to work for 50 years instead of opening your checkbook an assuming that expensive parts must be better than lightly modified stock ones.  The path of matched springs and shocks, good bushings, matched sway bars, and good bushings & ball joints takes you to the same destination as a complete $10k Total Control front and rear suspension system. 

Oh, and without chassis stiffness any suspension work is pretty much a waste of time.  Subframe connectors should be #1 on your suspension to do list.  Then Monte Carlo bar, export brace, etc. 

 

9/26/2017 7:46 PM  #13


Re: Best Front End Upgrades... Opinions?

TKO, I know what you're talking about. Generally roller or needle bearings are not mean to static loads. One reason why U joints are run at a angle are so the needle bearing roll and lubricate. I do have roller bearing spring perches. Last week I replaced my front springs. After 2 years, the roller spring perches still moved very freely with no notchyness. I have seen roller bearings listed for static use. As far as Heim joints, they're not roller or needle. They're basically bushings and bushings are used for either static or limited rotation. I had my concern before I did my suspension. I had spoken with a chassis guy who maintained a fleet of race cars. He said he would use a Heim joint over a conventional bushing any day of the week. He told me when they were allowed by class rules to switch to Heim joints over conventional rubber bushings the Heim joints far outlasted the stock parts. I know Street or Track sends his designs out to a PE for additional analysis and testing before his stuff hits the market. heim joints and roller bearings as I see it can't be any worse then rubber bushings. After all Ford used needle bearings on the UCA shaft and bronze bushings in the Falcon spring perches. Shaun from Street or Track had said recently in a post his first part he sold was the adjustable struts. He has not sold a single replacement rod end for them and that is including a customer in Alaska driving on dirt roads.


I'm not a complete idiot.....pieces are missing. Tom
 

9/27/2017 1:04 AM  #14


Re: Best Front End Upgrades... Opinions?

I concur Tom. I believe the kicker is using quality rod ends.


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
 

9/27/2017 8:50 AM  #15


Re: Best Front End Upgrades... Opinions?

I have a Street or Track coil over in my 69 Mustang.  Its good but I don't feel its worth the price for the ride quality it has.  It rides rough.   I  even swapped the 450 springs with 400 springs and its a little better.   I also have a Unisteer rack.  If I was starting from scratch I would go with Shelby Drop and Oem Moog parts.  I would do Manual rack with Electric steering.  No matter what you do and how much $ you spend you still have a 50 year car that will never feel or drive like a newer car.   Heck my 2003 Mini Van handles better than my Mustang...LOL    Though most of the roads up in Wisconsin are Crap!   So that doesn't help either.  Steve69

 

9/27/2017 5:51 PM  #16


Re: Best Front End Upgrades... Opinions?

Steve69 wrote:

I have a Street or Track coil over in my 69 Mustang.  Its good but I don't feel its worth the price for the ride quality it has.  It rides rough.   I  even swapped the 450 springs with 400 springs and its a little better.   I also have a Unisteer rack.  If I was starting from scratch I would go with Shelby Drop and Oem Moog parts.  I would do Manual rack with Electric steering.  No matter what you do and how much $ you spend you still have a 50 year car that will never feel or drive like a newer car.   Heck my 2003 Mini Van handles better than my Mustang...LOL    Though most of the roads up in Wisconsin are Crap!   So that doesn't help either.  Steve69

 
I like the idea of the electric power steering especially if it has the manual selector so you could turn it off on the road turn it on to park. However my solution to parallel parking is to park somewhere else.


"anyone that stops learning is old, whether at twenty or eighty"Henry Ford
 

9/27/2017 6:48 PM  #17


Re: Best Front End Upgrades... Opinions?

Huskinhano wrote:

TKO, I know what you're talking about. Generally roller or needle bearings are not mean to static loads. One reason why U joints are run at a angle are so the needle bearing roll and lubricate. I do have roller bearing spring perches. Last week I replaced my front springs. After 2 years, the roller spring perches still moved very freely with no notchyness. I have seen roller bearings listed for static use. As far as Heim joints, they're not roller or needle. They're basically bushings and bushings are used for either static or limited rotation. I had my concern before I did my suspension. I had spoken with a chassis guy who maintained a fleet of race cars. He said he would use a Heim joint over a conventional bushing any day of the week. He told me when they were allowed by class rules to switch to Heim joints over conventional rubber bushings the Heim joints far outlasted the stock parts. I know Street or Track sends his designs out to a PE for additional analysis and testing before his stuff hits the market. heim joints and roller bearings as I see it can't be any worse then rubber bushings. After all Ford used needle bearings on the UCA shaft and bronze bushings in the Falcon spring perches. Shaun from Street or Track had said recently in a post his first part he sold was the adjustable struts. He has not sold a single replacement rod end for them and that is including a customer in Alaska driving on dirt roads.

And on a race track he's right.  The problem is that a street is not a race track.  I've seen Fox body cars literally melt the rear UCA bushings after two laps around a track.  Yet on the street those bushings will dry rot before they ever fail.  The way things are loaded on a race track and on the street is simply not he same.  You will never encounter a pothole on a race track for example, and that kind of hard hit can damage a heim joint and cause it to wear out very quickly.  Definitely the Teflon lined heims are much better than the metal on metal ones, but there's still the issue of harshness.  Traction is another huge difference.  On street tires the degree of deflection in the suspension is somewhat relative, because you'll lose lateral grip before most quality bushings (Delrin or poly) deflect.  When the tires stay glued because they are sticky its a different situation because you can then feel everything. 

I like the idea of the roller spring perches, but I've also heard a lot of guys say that they used a perch with poly bushings and just put a grease zerk between the two bushings and feel they achieved the same degree of free movement. 

Ultimately, wear on most of these parts is going to be somewhat relative because these cars just don't get driven all that much.  I put 20-25k a year on my DD, but maybe 1k on my '67.  My goal with modifications is to make the car more fun to drive, but there's a line where additional performance takes some of that fun away by making the car ride harsh, etc.  Again, that's also a relative perspective that each guy has to figure out for himself.  But what I've learned is that race cars make lousy street cars, and vice versa.  Most street/strip cars see the street 90+% of the time and the track the rest, so making huge compromises which negatively affect how the car is used 90+% of the time in an effort to gain a slight edge in how its used >10% of the time makes no sense.  I'm just saying generally, not necessarily that anything we are discussing has this level of impact, just always something to keep in mind while making changes to your ride. 

 

9/27/2017 9:32 PM  #18


Re: Best Front End Upgrades... Opinions?

My home built coil over suspension with QA1 shocks,  350# front and 200# rear springs rides quite well imho on city streets and at 125 mph on the open road. For my car I certainly won't go to any stiffer spring up front.

I installed convertible inner rockers and one piece seat riser along with a 6 point roll bar with removable door bars. The convertible inner rockers and seat riser are mods I would highly recommend as they stiffened the chassis considerably.


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
 

10/12/2017 8:50 AM  #19


Re: Best Front End Upgrades... Opinions?

Ok I'm at the point of upgrading the suspension now as the rotisserie work continues on my 66 coupe
I'm undecided between Total control and Mustangs to Fear for athe front clip short version....
The rear is going to be 4 link...
I'm looking for input on both suppliers


Instagram : Howlinstang 🏁
 

10/12/2017 10:34 AM  #20


Re: Best Front End Upgrades... Opinions?

Use a torque arm system for the rear.  Its superior to a four link without about the same cost and amount of work.

On the front, can't really help.  Total Control has a great rep, but their stuff also seems a bit pricey (could well be worth it though).  I'll let those who have done this conversion comment because I have no first hand experience. 

 

10/14/2017 4:34 AM  #21


Re: Best Front End Upgrades... Opinions?

Thanks....
Who do you recommend as a supplier for the torque arm suspension?


Instagram : Howlinstang 🏁
 

10/14/2017 6:25 AM  #22


Re: Best Front End Upgrades... Opinions?

TCI, CorTex, and Chris Alston all make them.  I can't say that one is better or worse than another as I've no direct experience with these systems on early cars.  Fox and later Mustangs had a terribly designed factory four link (triangulated, no panhard rod) that made them dangerously handling cars at the limit.  3rd and 4th gen GM F-cars all had torque arms and you could run them right up to the limit without any fear, because they were totally predictable.  Maximum Motorsports, Griggs, and other started offering torque arm conversion systems for the Fox and SN95 cars many year ago, and we found it gave us the same great handling as the F-cars, but in a lighter car with more power.  Having studied suspension design for years I'm convinced that a TA system is the best, reasonable cost option for any solid axle street car looking for precise, confidence inspiring handling. 

 

10/15/2017 11:30 AM  #23


Re: Best Front End Upgrades... Opinions?

I went with the R&C Mustang II front end several years ago (Rack & Pinion steering) mainly to get rid of the shock towers.  I'm very happy with the change.  I went from MS to PS with this swap; while I agree with most of the anti PS comments in this train, parallel parking with a quick ratio box and 225 tires was not an easy task ... and I grew up driving the family's 61 Galaxie w/a 3-speed stick, and no PS or PB.  Parallel parking with that was a real task with that rig.


65 Fastback, 351W, 5-speed, 4 wheel discs, 9" rear,  R&C Front End.
 

10/15/2017 12:56 PM  #24


Re: Best Front End Upgrades... Opinions?

I'm thinking about changing my rear end gears from 3:40's to 4;10 . what can I expect as far as acceleration and drivability ? I have a 66 mustang with a 302 and AOD tranny with 15 inch wheels .

 

10/15/2017 3:51 PM  #25


Re: Best Front End Upgrades... Opinions?

Start a new post for best results
..

 

Board footera


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