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12/10/2017 2:31 PM  #1


What's wrong with my Mustang Steve S197 brake setup.

I have a 1937 Ford with a Mustang II front suspension under it, I also have a 2006 Mustang GT parts car I'm installing the front brakes off of using MS kit. I installed the MS brackets, the 2006 GT rotors on drum hubs off a 1970 Falcon, the problem is the rotor sits in too close in or the MS brackets are sitting to far out. The outside diameter of the Hubs (where the square cut is) were slightly too large to fit inside the rotor so i had to have the outside edge knocked off in a lathe to get them to drop into the rotor so obviously they weren't perfect fit hubs. I believe the problem is my front hub but I've taken measurements of everything, hopefully someone can see what the issue is. The inside edge of the caliper bracket was rubbing the rotor.
 

Last edited by cj428mach (12/10/2017 5:25 PM)

 

12/10/2017 2:31 PM  #2


Re: What's wrong with my Mustang Steve S197 brake setup.

extra post so I can post pics
 

     Thread Starter
 

12/10/2017 2:33 PM  #3


Re: What's wrong with my Mustang Steve S197 brake setup.

Pics

Front Edge of hub to brake bracket 2.321"


Front Edge of hub to main bracket. 1.894"


Front Edge of hub to inside edge of hub. 1.99"


Caliper Bracket inside edge rubbing


Thanks






 

     Thread Starter
 

12/10/2017 5:54 PM  #4


Re: What's wrong with my Mustang Steve S197 brake setup.

I do not have dimensions to compare to yours. If you bolted the rotor to the hub and the caliper bracket to the MS bracket, how much interference would you have?  Are you using A12 and A13 bearings?

The only variable is I can imagine is the hub. I have never used that hub, but I would think it would be same as 70 Mustang drum hubs, which fit perfectly.

Your rotor is too far inboard, right?  Did you buy a new rotor, or are you using the original from the 2006 GT.  Original caliper and bracket taken directly off the donor car?


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

12/10/2017 5:59 PM  #5


Re: What's wrong with my Mustang Steve S197 brake setup.

MS wrote:

I do not have dimensions to compare to yours. If you bolted the rotor to the hub and the caliper bracket to the MS bracket, how much interference would you have? Are you using A12 and A13 bearings?

The only variable is I can imagine is the hub. I have never used that hub, but I would think it would be same as 70 Mustang drum hubs, which fit perfectly.

Your rotor is too far inboard, right? Did you buy a new rotor, or are you using the original from the 2006 GT. Original caliper and bracket taken directly off the donor car?

I have more than an extra washers length interference. I added another washer on top of the ones supplied in the kit and it spaces the rotor out just about where the inside edge of caliper bracket should be (the bracket got worn down by the rotor as seen in last picture).

I am using brand new A12 and A13 bearings and races.

That is correct, the rotor is in to far. The rotors, calipers, etc were all taken off a wrecked 06 GT mustang by me and all parts are FOMOCO.

Do you by chance have a 65-73 Mustang that you can measure the length of to compare to mine?

     Thread Starter
 

12/10/2017 6:11 PM  #6


Re: What's wrong with my Mustang Steve S197 brake setup.

I do not have a car with those spindles and beackets. Maybe someonecelse can help?

The spacer should be right around .120”. Not just a washer, but a specific thickness chrome washer.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

12/10/2017 6:19 PM  #7


Re: What's wrong with my Mustang Steve S197 brake setup.

Do you have another caliper bracket you can try?  I had a similar problem when I installed my MS brackets for the Cobra brake conversion on my 65- the rotor was hitting the caliper bracket. I was using all new parts and double checked the hubs, rotors, and all measurements and all looked good. Out of desperation/exasperation, I bolted up a different caliper bracket that I had laying around and all worked perfectly.  Both caliper brackets- the one that hit and the one that worked perfectly- were factory brackets, so there must be a small variance even among the factory stuff.

 

12/10/2017 6:24 PM  #8


Re: What's wrong with my Mustang Steve S197 brake setup.

I do have the special trimmed chrome washer installed along with the other supplied full sized washer in place. That wasn't enough adding 1 washer to each side (I trimmed one to clear as well) and that got the rotor out to where it would have just barely touched the caliper bracket. I'm tempted to just make my own spacer plate out of 1/4" or 3/8" but I'd like to know where my issue is coming from.

     Thread Starter
 

12/10/2017 6:28 PM  #9


Re: What's wrong with my Mustang Steve S197 brake setup.

Chaplin wrote:

Do you have another caliper bracket you can try? I had a similar problem when I installed my MS brackets for the Cobra brake conversion on my 65- the rotor was hitting the caliper bracket. I was using all new parts and double checked the hubs, rotors, and all measurements and all looked good. Out of desperation/exasperation, I bolted up a different caliper bracket that I had laying around and all worked perfectly. Both caliper brackets- the one that hit and the one that worked perfectly- were factory brackets, so there must be a small variance even among the factory stuff.

Thanks for the reply. I did try the caliper bracket off the other side and rotor to double check it with no luck. I assume the rotor should be centered in the bracket opening so I'm at least a 1/4" off one direction.

The supplied bolt that bolts the MS spindel bracket to the MS caliper bracket is also just barely clearing the rotor. Maybe a few thousands of an inch, is this normal?

Last edited by cj428mach (12/10/2017 6:30 PM)

     Thread Starter
 

12/10/2017 7:19 PM  #10


Re: What's wrong with my Mustang Steve S197 brake setup.

The bolts will be close, but not hit.
Did you install new bearing races in the hubs?
If you are certain everything is bolted up tight, as designed, then the hubs must be different. Per my design, your bracket will not be perfectly centered about the rotor, but will be where it cannot rub.

Another thought. Are you using factory MustangII spindles or V8 65-73 spindles?


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

12/10/2017 7:39 PM  #11


Re: What's wrong with my Mustang Steve S197 brake setup.

It doesn't appear to be a hub issue.


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
 

12/10/2017 7:42 PM  #12


Re: What's wrong with my Mustang Steve S197 brake setup.

rpm wrote:

It doesn't appear to be a hub issue.

Thank you! That at least saves me from spending money on some different hubs.
 

     Thread Starter
 

12/10/2017 7:43 PM  #13


Re: What's wrong with my Mustang Steve S197 brake setup.

MS wrote:

The bolts will be close, but not hit.
Did you install new bearing races in the hubs?
If you are certain everything is bolted up tight, as designed, then the hubs must be different. Per my design, your bracket will not be perfectly centered about the rotor, but will be where it cannot rub.

Another thought. Are you using factory MustangII spindles or V8 65-73 spindles?

Yes, new bearing races and hubs.

I am using Mustang II spindles. It looks like I just need to make some spacers.

     Thread Starter
 

12/10/2017 8:07 PM  #14


Re: What's wrong with my Mustang Steve S197 brake setup.

Ya, I'd think it was the mixing of the MII spindles and 65-73 hubs for the interference.


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
 

12/10/2017 8:09 PM  #15


Re: What's wrong with my Mustang Steve S197 brake setup.

rpm wrote:

Ya, I'd think it was the mixing of the MII spindles and 65-73 hubs for the interference.

I believe thats what the kit was designed for.

     Thread Starter
 

12/10/2017 10:53 PM  #16


Re: What's wrong with my Mustang Steve S197 brake setup.

rpm wrote:

Ya, I'd think it was the mixing of the MII spindles and 65-73 hubs for the interference.

 

Careful when you start thinking again...

He has the GT2008-FT-MII kit designed for MII spindles. The 65-73 Hubs fit MII spindles if MII bearings are used.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

12/11/2017 12:19 AM  #17


Re: What's wrong with my Mustang Steve S197 brake setup.

MS wrote:

 
Careful when you start thinking again...

He has the GT2008-FT-MII kit designed for MII spindles. The 65-73 Hubs fit MII spindles if MII bearings are used.

DOH! Never mind then.


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
 

12/11/2017 9:06 AM  #18


Re: What's wrong with my Mustang Steve S197 brake setup.

I have the MII front under my 65 FB with the MS kit using the 65 hubs. Everything bolted on real nice but I did use some machinery bushings/spacers to center the brakes over the rotor just like discussed here. My variance was the spindles which were aftermarket 2 inch drop ones. I always have a few hard spacers/washers in my toolbox.

 

12/11/2017 11:13 AM  #19


Re: What's wrong with my Mustang Steve S197 brake setup.

Just an observation from your apparent measurements.  Placing the hub on a flat plane and measuring up to the rotor mounting surface is a good comparison, but should always be made from the back of the inner bearing, not the back of the hub.  I cannot tell from your pictures of that measurement if the bearing is in place or not.

Looks like if everything is bolted up tight, then an additional hardened solid washer type shim would do the trick.
----- Not more than 0.200" thick total.
----- Be sure the Grade 8,  1/2" attaching bolt that mounts Bracket A and Bracket B together has at least two to three threads protruding from the nut. 
----- Use red Loctite.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

12/11/2017 7:59 PM  #20


Re: What's wrong with my Mustang Steve S197 brake setup.

I removed the MS supplied washers and cut my own 1 piece spacers out of 3/16" steel which seems to have it pretty close on the one wheel I tested it on. I had to remove the spacers to powder coat them black and should be able to assemble tomorrow.

     Thread Starter
 

12/12/2017 8:39 PM  #21


Re: What's wrong with my Mustang Steve S197 brake setup.

Please report results when you get it completed.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

12/18/2017 11:34 AM  #22


Re: What's wrong with my Mustang Steve S197 brake setup.

MS wrote:

Please report results when you get it completed.

The 3/16" spacers worked on my setup to get everything lined up. I finished the install this weekend and took it for a short drive and everything held up fine. While the new 12.5" setup is much better than the 11" granada based setup I had I must say the performance was a little lacking. I actually reused the brake pads and rotors off the parts car and that might be where the problem is.  I was expecting similar braking to my 03 Cobra if not better as my 37 weighs much less.

Surprisingly with my 17" torque thrusts the caliper was wanting to hit the spokes of the rim, putting the partially worn pads on, using my 3/16" home made spacers, and using a 1/8" wheel spacer I had laying around gave me some much needed clearance.

Last edited by cj428mach (12/18/2017 12:12 PM)

     Thread Starter
 

12/18/2017 11:56 AM  #23


Re: What's wrong with my Mustang Steve S197 brake setup.

Good lookin' '37, CJ.  My favorite Ford year.  My bro-in-law just found a pretty nice '40 Cp.  Very happy for him butteye (TS) prefer the '37.

BB
 


"you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
 

12/18/2017 12:12 PM  #24


Re: What's wrong with my Mustang Steve S197 brake setup.

Bullet Bob wrote:

Good lookin' '37, CJ.  My favorite Ford year.  My bro-in-law just found a pretty nice '40 Cp.  Very happy for him butteye (TS) prefer the '37.

BB
 

Thank you! I maybe a little biased but I've never figured out why the 37 is considered the "ugly duckling" of the Fat Fendered Fords. I've never understood why it isn't more popular than the 40's, I guess I just don't have the right taste lol.

     Thread Starter
 

12/18/2017 8:40 PM  #25


Re: What's wrong with my Mustang Steve S197 brake setup.

What a great looking car!

 

Board footera


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