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  • Index
  •  » FYI Ford, Classic Mustang Tech Discussion
  •  » Crank Casualty

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    6/13/2018 4:51 AM  #26

    TKOPerformance
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    From: Newark, DE
    Registered: 12/15/2014
    Posts: 7,546

    Re: Crank Casualty

    rpm wrote:

    MS wrote:

    These are the marks I saw.  If you installed the crank yourself, that is not likely the issue.  Hope your problem gets worked out.  I have the Scat forged crank.  Is yours the cast or forged one?

    Well, now that you point those out, yes I do see your point of view.

    My Scat crank is cast. Shallow pockets. When I was first looking into the Scat crank, 393 was it. One day I googled scat, HOLY CRAP! I must have led a sheltered life by what I found.
     

    HAHAHAHAH!  Funny because the internet is such a filthy place, and ALSO funny because you said holy crap while talking about scat!
     

     

    6/13/2018 4:52 AM  #27

    TKOPerformance
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    From: Newark, DE
    Registered: 12/15/2014
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    Re: Crank Casualty

    rpm wrote:

    6sally6 wrote:

    I've "seen" stuff get spray welded(years ago!) butt know nothing about how it happens. I think there may be a little"black magic" involved!

    Black magic indeed. When I hear about stuff like those crank welders, I wonder how they got thinking to that point. Who even would think of spraying granulated flux into an arc???

    What's the plan? Spray weld/repair the crank and  re install?!

    Yes, Weld the damaged area, polish the journals, then check and if they're within spec, if not, take them to .010 under.

    How's the quality/cost of a new stroker crank?!? (Like Eagle?)

    At least twice as much as a repair. Quality, who knows.

    You kinda know what you got now....with new crank that advantage is gone.

    Ya, I'm confident the repairs will be fine. That is, up until I fire it up.

    Was the converter a "trick" piece or  FoMoCo?!

    Ya trick. It was the trick stock one delivered by Henry.

    From what I've read/heard most everything is Chinese-made....even if it sez Made in US of A.! (made there...machined here?!)

    That's also what I've read.

    Sounds like you have some purdy-smart folks(and friends) on your side....That's a huge +! Hang-in-ther and let us know what happens.

    Well, they're smarter than me, so...
    I'll probably only let you know if all goes well. If not, I've got a 460/C6 combo I need to do sumpin wit.

    6sally6

     

    So, 460/C6?  In the interest of keeping it stock?
     

     

    6/13/2018 6:22 AM  #28

    rpm
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    From: Bakersfield, Ca
    Registered: 9/17/2013
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    Re: Crank Casualty

    Sure, V8 & auto trans.  😀

    Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
       •Thread Starter
     

    6/13/2018 7:11 AM  #29

    TKOPerformance
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    From: Newark, DE
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    Re: Crank Casualty

    V1710 Allison aircraft engine connected to a race built Powerglide still counts then I suppose.  Might as well stop going by half measures

     

    6/13/2018 8:46 AM  #30

    6sally6
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    From: Surfside Beach,SC
    Registered: 4/02/2013
    Posts: 6,884

    Re: Crank Casualty

    Sorry for your issues........let me help you spend your money!!!
    Consider an after market converter. They  build them with anti-ballooning tech(what ever that is!) + other features like better stall.....lock-up feature...al sorts of  'spensive goodies. There won't be a "more convenient" time than now, with all your stuff pulled out.(no pun California boy!)
    6sal6

    Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
     

    6/13/2018 9:09 AM  #31

    Bolted to Floor
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    From: Houston, Texas
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    Re: Crank Casualty

    Bob, now that you’re getting the crank repaired. So this doesn’t happen again, how will you go about figuring out if it was the flex plate, converter, or something else?

    John  -- 67 Mustang Coupe 390 5 speed
     

    6/13/2018 9:10 AM  #32

    TKOPerformance
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    From: Newark, DE
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    Re: Crank Casualty

    anti ballooning tech is industry code for a thick steel plate welded inside the back of the converter around the snout to prevent the case from ballooning outward under extreme use. 

     

    6/13/2018 12:23 PM  #33

    Greg B
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    Re: Crank Casualty

    A torque converter is balloning you got even bigger problems.  Think this process through for a minute. The torque converter by nature pushes on the thrust bearing when it is at pressure the transmission is pump is basically PUSHING the torque converter out of the hole hydraulically.   Just like a convertible top cylinder expanding.  The thrust bearing is what limits it's travel.   

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEfqKoilLkI

    If multiple things can go wrong, the one that will go wrong will be the one that causes the most damage.
     

    6/13/2018 2:12 PM  #34

    rpm
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    From: Bakersfield, Ca
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    Re: Crank Casualty

    Bolted-

    Ultimately I won't know till I run the motor and it happens or doesn't happen again. I can only rely from others experience, and applying it to my situation. When the flex plate flexes, there has to be clearances between the flex plate and the converter, and between the converter snout and the crank hole. I've measured these spots in my stuff, and based on what is considered acceptable in other folks experience, my clearances are good. Based on past problems like mine, it always points to the converter. We shall see.

    TKO-

    That is my understanding on an anti ballooning converter as well.

    Greg B wrote:

    A torque converter is balloning you got even bigger problems. 

     
    Absolutely! And my research shows the problem to be damage to the thrust bearing and crank. When there isn't enough clearance between the converter, flex plate and crank, the crank is pushed forward too much causing damage. The lack of clearance can be static, before the motor is running, or when the converter balloons.

    Hey, this is all new to me. A week ago I didn't know chit. Unless I figure out cause and effect on something myself, I have to find out what others have experienced and weigh its application to my issues.

    I don't think I've thanked anyone yet, so mucho thanks to all y'all for sharing your thoughts.

    Oh, still looking for a recommendation on a good aftermarket torque converter. Thanks.

    Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
       •Thread Starter
     

    6/14/2018 11:32 AM  #35

    Bolted to Floor
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    From: Houston, Texas
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    Re: Crank Casualty

    Looks like you're doing well with the learning curve. Good luck Bob.

    John  -- 67 Mustang Coupe 390 5 speed
     

    6/14/2018 1:33 PM  #36

    rpm
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    From: Bakersfield, Ca
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    Re: Crank Casualty

    Ha!  Unintended consequenses. I'm a toploader guy at heart. Thanks John.

    Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
       •Thread Starter
     

    6/14/2018 4:18 PM  #37

    50vert
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    From: QLD Australia
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    Re: Crank Casualty

    Precision Industries for a converter.
    https://converter.com

    "Those telephone poles were like a picket fence"
     

    6/14/2018 5:18 PM  #38

    rpm
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    From: Bakersfield, Ca
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    Re: Crank Casualty

    Thanks Barry. I see the owner of the company, like me, was originally from Fresno. I've contacted them for info on my application.

    Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
       •Thread Starter
     

    6/14/2018 11:08 PM  #39

    rpm
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    From: Bakersfield, Ca
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    Re: Crank Casualty

    Greg B wrote:

    Excessive hydraulic pressure in the transmission pushing the torque converter forward.   Like a valve body restriction, trans brake.  Assuming the torque converter was installed properly.  

    https://www.dragstuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4869
     

     
    Hey Greg, this issue of excessive line pressure is getting more of my attention. Problem is finding info on an FMX. I do have the Bad Shoe download on FMX's, but don't recall if Ken discusses this and a fix.

    Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
       •Thread Starter
     

    6/14/2018 11:22 PM  #40

    Bentworker
    I FYI 24-7

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    Registered: 9/17/2017
    Posts: 475

    Re: Crank Casualty

    One FMX guru is Jay at http://www.broaderperformance.com/


    Line pressure isn't black magic, it can be checked with a pressure gauge and a long hose on a test drive.  I'd be more suspect of the torque converter not being fully seated on the pump when the engine and transmission were mated... or maybe some serious torque converter mayhem.

     

    6/15/2018 4:41 AM  #41

    MachTJ
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    From: Wisconsin
    Registered: 5/18/2014
    Posts: 348

    Re: Crank Casualty

    whoever spray welds the crank will grind it and check it for straightness, due to the heat from welding process.

     

    6/16/2018 1:03 PM  #42

    rpm
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    From: Bakersfield, Ca
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    Re: Crank Casualty

    After searching online yesterday for HOURS, I was able to find someone who knew where the pressure port on an FMX is located. Btw, it's to the left of the shift linkage.

    The TC was fully installed, as evidenced by watching and seeing it take the second movement inward, and by the snout being behind the front edge of the bellhousing. While I've never experienced it myself, it's my understanding that if the TC isn't fully seated, the trans won't go function and the pump will be junk.

    I'm awaiting the machine shop to let me know if they were able to keep the journals standard or if they had to go ten under, so I can buy the bearings.

    Last edited by rpm (6/16/2018 1:05 PM)

    Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
       •Thread Starter
     

    6/16/2018 4:43 PM  #43

    50vert
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    From: QLD Australia
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    Re: Crank Casualty

    What converter did you go with Bob?

    "Those telephone poles were like a picket fence"
     

    6/16/2018 5:27 PM  #44

    rpm
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    From: Bakersfield, Ca
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    Re: Crank Casualty

    Haven't got one yet Barry. Slim pickings on fmx converters.

    Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
       •Thread Starter
     

    6/16/2018 7:28 PM  #45

    50vert
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    From: QLD Australia
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    Re: Crank Casualty

    I skipped the FMX part.
    Try Broader performance.
    http://www.broaderperformance.com/ford-fmx/164-fmx-10-forged-series-torque-converter.html

    "Those telephone poles were like a picket fence"
     

    6/16/2018 7:31 PM  #46

    rpm
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    From: Bakersfield, Ca
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    Re: Crank Casualty

    Ya, not sure I care to spend $600 on a converter.

    Last edited by rpm (6/16/2018 7:34 PM)

    Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
       •Thread Starter
     

    6/16/2018 9:36 PM  #47

    6sally6
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    From: Surfside Beach,SC
    Registered: 4/02/2013
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    Re: Crank Casualty

    I missed that part too, Barry!
    Wonder if...........a C-4 or even a C-6 woulda had the same issues?
    6sal6

    Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
     

    6/16/2018 9:54 PM  #48

    Bentworker
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    Re: Crank Casualty

    If you have a low converter budget you may need a high crankshaft and bearing budget.

    Could be worse.  Some diesel pickup converters are 2-4 times what Broader is charging.

     

    6/16/2018 10:04 PM  #49

    Bolted to Floor
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    From: Houston, Texas
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    Re: Crank Casualty

    $600 converter?? How far can you go on an auto overdrive conversion can you get for that money??

    John  -- 67 Mustang Coupe 390 5 speed
     

    6/16/2018 10:45 PM  #50

    rpm
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    From: Bakersfield, Ca
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    Re: Crank Casualty

    Bolted to Floor wrote:

    $600 converter?? How far can you go on an auto overdrive conversion can you get for that money??

     
    Apparently all stock converters are crap, and I'd have to buy a $600 converter for it too.

    Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
       •Thread Starter
     

     

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