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Hi,
I just changed the oil using the recommended 10W30 non synthetic with zinc additive on my 69 Mach I with 351W 4V, now I have a bad rear main oil seal leak. Car was not driven for several years, the old oil was Texaco Havoline 10W30 last changed in the 1980's. Just wondering if I could go to a straight 40W oil and be okay The car has 100K miles, it's not driven in winter.
Also, was the original 2 piece oil seal rope or neoprene? Anybody have any luck with mechanic in a can products, if so what did you use? Thanks.
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Welcome to my world! And it all started with a leaky rear main seal
While many folk swear by it, I would recommend not using the seal in a bottle fix. MS had a post a while back that detailed his not so good experience with the Blue Devil crank seal. I used some, and when I removed my pan I, like Steve, found dark gunk at the bottom of the pan.
Which desert do you live in that makes you want to use 40w oil?
has everything you need to know about oil.
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The bottom line is that the seal dried out from sitting, then tore when the engine was pressed back into service. Running heavier weight oil isn't going to solve the issue; it might make the leak somewhat less, but at what expense? Straight 40W oil will be like taffy when the engine is cold. It will place undue strain on the oil pump and oil pump driveshaft (which I've seen twisted like a swizzel stick in a SBF before BTW).
Seal repair in a can? No thanks. MS's story aside all that junk is is a bunch of stuff that swells the seals up. It may work temporarily, but eventually the seal will fail catastrophically and instead of a little leak you end up with it dumping your oil everywhere. Those products are basically made for someone who's selling the vehicle and doesn't want to go to the expense of fixing it right.
Do yourself a favor and just change the seal. Its not really that big a deal (I just did mine about a month ago). Drop the pan, pull the rear main cap, pull the oil pump, loosen all the mains, drive/yank the old upper part of the seal out of the block, clean any sealer off the cap & block, slide in the new upper portion while turning the crank in the direction of installation, a little silicone on the cap mating surface & the seal ends (offset the seal about 3/8" so the ends don't line up with the parting line between the block & cap), and reinstall everything.
The biggest trick to it is to make up a guide tool so you don't shave the back of the new upper half of the seal on installation. I just took a plastic water bottle and cut a strip of the thin, tough plastic to fit the groove in the block. This provides protection for the seal to slide past, so it doesn't catch the edge of the groove in the block and shave itself.
Use some white lithium grease on the seal lips and crank, the back of the seals must be installed dry.
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Try the 40 weight!........MANY guys run 20W-50 in their DD stuff because they figger.....works in a race car....must be good!"
40 weight in the summer and don't drive it when its cold weather. I can't see anything bad happening.
COULD IT??...well probably butt...a lot of folks have run 40 weight for years(STP Oil Treatment too) with zero issues.
6sal6
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Oh, it could. I've seen several engines destroyed from running the wrong weight oil. Granted, those were newer engines (OHC, etc.), and these older engines are less precise, and likely would survive, but why risk it? When an engine is designed the oil system is designed to run a certain weight oil. This ensures proper lubrication and pressure.
Race engines I'm seeing now are running continually lighter weight oils, because with synthetics you don't need the viscosity. In claimer classes of drag racing guys run 0W20, and only two quarts at that. The pan is literally dry by mid track in the 1/4, yet the engines survive like that for an entire year of racing because the oil is so good.
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My 331 has been more than happy with 20-50 synthetic for the past few years. Warm weather driven. High volume oil pump, hardened ARP pump shaft.
Oil pressure is a tad over 50 PSI even at idle. All the Fox body guys in our neighborhood run 20-50.
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Id did my rear seal on my 302 3 times using TKO's method and it leaked every time. My next method is let it leak and fix it when I pull the engine and put a new one in...LOL Steve69
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The problem with the 2 piece rear main seal is they stopped making the seal that worked the best- Felpro 2902 that is a tan color. From what I understand the Ford replacement was like the Felpro 2902, which is no longer available.
The Felpro BS 40042 black one is too hard.
Cometic C5689 too soft
SBC 13605 not sure but leaks
I was able to find NOS felpro 2902 but haven't installed yet, maybe next winter
They don't leak bad but always a drop of oil on the bell
The best solution is to have the block machined for a one piece seal
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Grabber Blu wrote:
The problem with the 2 piece rear main seal is they stopped making the seal that worked the best- Felpro 2902 that is a tan color. From what I understand the Ford replacement was like the Felpro 2902, which is no longer available.
The Felpro BS 40042 black one is too hard.
Cometic C5689 too soft
SBC 13605 not sure but leaks
I was able to find NOS felpro 2902 but haven't installed yet, maybe next winter
They don't leak bad but always a drop of oil on the bell
The best solution is to have the block machined for a one piece seal
I used an old Felpro 2902 I has still in the package on the shelf, which explains why mine seems to have stopped the leak. I also think a lot of it is in the installation. They used to give you the little tool I had to make with the seal, but stopped doing that. If you try to install one without that tool it will 100% certainly shave the back of the seal and it will leak.
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Rudi wrote:
My 331 has been more than happy with 20-50 synthetic for the past few years. Warm weather driven. High volume oil pump, hardened ARP pump shaft.
Oil pressure is a tad over 50 PSI even at idle. All the Fox body guys in our neighborhood run 20-50.
Synthetic oil isn't a direct comparison to conventional oil, so what you can get away with using it shouldn't be assumed to work with conventional. Synthetic, especially cold always flows much better than conventional of the same weight. Synthetic also forms a thicker film on parts and does not come off easily, whereas the conventional will drip right off. BUT, I would NEVER run synthetic in an older engine, especially if you're trying to solve a leak. Synthetic doesn't have the range of molecules that conventional oil does. This makes is much better at lubricating, handling heat, and flowing. The downside is that to keep seals pliant requires additives, instead of the heavy molecules in conventional oil like parafin that serve that purpose. In that respect, especially with older seals, synthetic isn't as good as conventional. I switched several older engines over years ago and they all developed mysterious new leaks. One I switched back to conventional and the leaks stopped. It seems to be fine for newer engines, and is OEM in most everything now. There are definite benefits, and I would not hesitate to run it in a fresh engine after it was broken in, but putting it in an older engine, especially one that sat for a while and is already leaking; that's a recipe for disaster.
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My understanding is that synthetic molecules are all the same size .... if one wedges under the lip of the seal, another can slide past it.
Dino oil, with its varying size molecules, can pack against the seal, thus sealing it.
Simplified so that I can understand it.
I have been wrong before tho.
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Your understanding is correct. Synthetic oil is indeed a homogeneous fluid composed of only one oil molecule. There are other molecules in it, but they are part of the additive package.
Conventional oil is composed of dozens of different hydrocarbon molecules of varying size and length. The heavier molecules are more like grease or wax (parafin) and serve to keep seals flexible and sealing well. There may be something to the wedge concept too. It makes sense logically.
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Thanks for all your input on the rear main seal problem. I've heard that this 2 piece seal was a rope seal while others tell me its a neoprene seal, which is it?
Just to be clear, I used regular dino 10W30 oil on the oil change. Before I changed out the old Texaco Havoline, the rear main was not leaking nearly as bad.
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Both are two piece. Difference the rope seal you have to form it in the block and form it in the cap. The 2 piece lip seal is ready to be installed out of the box.
Last edited by Grabber Blu (6/21/2018 11:13 AM)
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Depends, it could be either. The stock seal was a rope seal. The rope seal could have been replaced with another rope seal, or a rubber seal at some point in the engine's life. Only one way to know for sure...
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