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6/18/2018 7:03 AM  #1


Alignment done at Pep Boys, Midas, Firestone etc?

Do any of the national repair chains do alignments on older cars like mustangs?

Will need an alignment after redoing the entire front suspension but not sure if I need to take it to a specialty shop.  I'd consider doing it myself but I've already spent way too much money on tools the last 6 months.  I'd be interested to know if anyone has had any successful DIY efforts.

(Edit: saw that someone has a write up on their own alignment setup, will look into it. Also saw some $50 alignment tools that are pretty popular.  I assumed you had to use the high end laser stuff.)

Last edited by TremendousWand (6/18/2018 7:10 AM)

 

6/18/2018 9:01 AM  #2


Re: Alignment done at Pep Boys, Midas, Firestone etc?

My at home attempt was a bust. Even with the pile of borrowed tools and other stuff I simply ran out of patience. I called several national chain shops and got everything from"well, we could try" to "no". I took it to an independent race shop recommended by a friend. They did an excellent job.


"anyone that stops learning is old, whether at twenty or eighty"Henry Ford
 

6/18/2018 3:20 PM  #3


Re: Alignment done at Pep Boys, Midas, Firestone etc?

Did mine again about a month ago.  Easy as pie.  Fastrax gauge, turn plates, and a tape measure.  It does take some patience, though you will develop a feel for how much turning say the camber eccentric (or adding a certain thickness shim) affects the numbers.  I set caster first (3-1/2 + degrees LH, 3-3/4 + degrees RH), then camber (0.5 - degree both sides), centered the steering wheel, and lastly set toe (1/8" total in). 

There are some tricks to it.  First, progress in the order given above.  Caster affects camber, so if you try to do it  backwards you'll chase your tail. 

Second, the suspension needs to be settled, so run the car around the block first, then drive onto the turn plates, or roll the car.  If you must jack it up, place the jack under the LCA to keep the suspension loaded.  If it unloads you'll get erroneous readings, or need to run it around the block again to settle it again. 

Third, there are all kinds of ways to center the wheel, but the simplest is to start with both tie rods the same length.  Then just adjust each side equally when setting toe.  This way you know that when the tape reads say 55" on the back and 54-7/8" on the front you're at 1/16" toe in per wheel or 1/8" total toe in, and the wheels are located properly relative to the chassis. 

The risk with any shop that doesn't specialize in older cars, or come recommended by those who drive older cars, is that they could either use the factory specs, which were for bias ply tires and will make a radial tire equipped car handle like a death trap, or they just set it wherever is simplest and not necessarily to your specs, meaning you aren't getting the most out of the suspension from a handling perspective.  The actual adjustments are not terribly hard, so its unlikely they would screw up based on that.  Modern cars don't use shims, so there's an element of difference if you have a '65-'66, but '67 onward use eccentrics,. which are still the way camber is set today.  Toe adjustment has been the same basically forever (will they bother to center your wheel though?).  Caster is shim adjusted on '65-'66 unless you've added adjustable strut rods, which '67 onward have stock.  If you understand how a alignment works it shouldn't be tough to figure out how to adjust one of these cars, so you would think someone who aligns cars everyday would be okay at it, but the claim something is idiotproof seems often to underestimate the idiot, so I suppose from that standpoint its still a bit of a gamble. 

Lastly, the specs which I used for my car are for cars that have the Shelby/Arning drop.  Stock UCA location will make that much caster impossible, and you would want more like 1.5 degrees negative camber due to the significantly worse camber gain under cornering.  I'd had my car aligned at least three times over the years by various shops, and it was never really right IMO.  When I learned to do my own alignment I discovered that the caster was WAY off side to side, and the wheel wasn't actually centered (Tires made a parallelogram and they just clocked the wheel to give the illusion it was centered).  This distrust that bred has led me to just do it myself from then on. 

 

6/18/2018 4:54 PM  #4


Re: Alignment done at Pep Boys, Midas, Firestone etc?

I ended up taking my 66 to Bear Alignment Shop here in Cali.after the Shelby Mod.. not many of them around anymore but a mechanic friend told me he sends all the old cars there ....many old schoolers work there..it was $55 bux and done before I even finished breakfast next door...I gave the specs to the guy and he did them exactly...no problems


"If Someone Did it on Youtube...So Can I...Well.....Unless its Heart Surgery,Thats Kinda Hard"
 

6/18/2018 6:06 PM  #5


Re: Alignment done at Pep Boys, Midas, Firestone etc?

I worked at Pep Boys(years ago) They CAN NOT! align any car that is not in their computer system(doesn't go back to 60-70's era)
I had a Poop Boys "claim" they could align it....Tulsa OK......I ruined two tires before I could get to an "old skool alignment shop to put in the correct specs. (They bought me two tires BTW)
ALL the ones you mentioned (probably) are the same way.
Find an Old school shop to do it.
6sal6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

6/19/2018 3:39 PM  #6


Re: Alignment done at Pep Boys, Midas, Firestone etc?

Do you have spoke type wheels and disc type brakes?  If so you can buy a very inexpensive digital angle finder...not a 4 or 5 inch analog one but a little magnetic digital one.  This will allow you to check/set camber off of the brake rotors, and by making a small piece of 1/2" ID square tubing with a notch on one end you can slip it over the protruding threads of the ball joint studs and check caster.  If you have MS disc brake brackets you can use the back edge of them to check caster. 

Use a four 14ga 1'x 1' steel plates sandwitched with a bit of grease...make fine turning plates.  Or a couple of plastic bags will work.  Search and read the alignment threads here for how-to and ideas for simple tools to make the job easier.  It's time consuming but not hard.

BB
 

Last edited by Bullet Bob (6/19/2018 3:40 PM)


"you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
 

6/19/2018 4:46 PM  #7


Re: Alignment done at Pep Boys, Midas, Firestone etc?

You can read caster the same spot you read camber also.  Turn the wheel 15 degrees in and zero the gauge, then turn to 15 degrees back and read the gauge.  That's your caster angle.  Also why I bought turn plates, because they have angle reference on them.  The steel plates or trash bag thing works (you can actually use dish soap too for easier clean up), but its too imprecise.  I found a set of turn plates on Amazon for like $100 that work great.  Easy to use, no clean up, and easy to store. 

 

6/19/2018 6:56 PM  #8


Re: Alignment done at Pep Boys, Midas, Firestone etc?

I didn't have to buy a thing to get a very accurate, smooth, no pulling, easy driving alignment. At 100, I don't need to hold the wheel to keep the car straight. If I can do it, almost anyone can.


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
 

6/20/2018 5:08 AM  #9


Re: Alignment done at Pep Boys, Midas, Firestone etc?

Years ago I did the super cheap approach as well.  Its not that it doesn't work; its that it takes more time.  These days my time is simply worth more than my money.  With a fleet of a half dozen vehicles to keep on the road, and each one needing periodic alignment I considered the less than $300 I spent on my turn plates and Fastrax gauge an investment.  At $90/alignment, which is the going rate around here, it pays for itself very quickly.  I can align anything with wheels up to 17", which covers everything in my current fleet. 

BTW, if you buy the Fastrax gauge be sure to buy the wheel lip adapters.  The pin style attachment method it comes with doesn't work that well.  I would not both with the toe adapters.  A tape measure is still IMO the best way to set your toe, and the simplest. 

 

6/20/2018 6:39 AM  #10


Re: Alignment done at Pep Boys, Midas, Firestone etc?

Since caster is the angle that the spindle is tilted at, why not just measure caster off the upper and lower ball joint points?  This direct measurement seems to be a more straight forward method than measuring the change from turning the wheel.


1968 T-code Coupe with a 302.  Nice car, no show stopper for sure, but I like it.
 

6/20/2018 9:08 AM  #11


Re: Alignment done at Pep Boys, Midas, Firestone etc?

Rufus68 wrote:

Since caster is the angle that the spindle is tilted at, why not just measure caster off the upper and lower ball joint points?  This direct measurement seems to be a more straight forward method than measuring the change from turning the wheel.

That is how I, and it sounds like Bullet Bob also, measure the caster. The aluminum 1" round tube with notches at the ends in my pic above, slips over the exposed ball joint threads to measure the caster angle.
 

Last edited by rpm (6/20/2018 9:12 AM)


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
 

6/20/2018 4:15 PM  #12


Re: Alignment done at Pep Boys, Midas, Firestone etc?

Hmn, never considered that method.  That would indeed work.  I'd be curious to see if there's an deviation between the two methods. 

 

6/20/2018 8:47 PM  #13


Re: Alignment done at Pep Boys, Midas, Firestone etc?

Well, since the high buck method has been used for years, and involves trigonometry, I do believe it would be very accurate. Human error on the lo buck method would be easier to accomplish me thinks.


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
 

6/21/2018 6:58 AM  #14


Re: Alignment done at Pep Boys, Midas, Firestone etc?

Anyone know of a shop in Dallas region that would do an alignment? 

(Please don't say Dallas Mustang)

     Thread Starter
 

6/21/2018 8:45 AM  #15


Re: Alignment done at Pep Boys, Midas, Firestone etc?

I'm in Dallas.  See my recent how-to on how I did my alignment at home on my 65.  If you really want a shop to do it, Dallas Mustang recommended Bill the Muffler King and had I not done it myself that's where I would have gone.  I went there recently to have some exhaust work done and Brian, who is a big-time car guy, did an excellent job and was very meticulous.  BTW, if you're in Dallas, we'll have to get together some time!


Cheap, Fast, Good:  Pick Any Two
 

6/28/2018 6:30 PM  #16


Re: Alignment done at Pep Boys, Midas, Firestone etc?

As BB mentioned, all the MustangSteve front brake brackets have a horizontal lower edge on the main bracket.  A magnetic level (cheap analog version or $25 digital from Home Depot) can be placed on it to read caster directly.  And, since no inside splash shield is used, camber can be read by placing the level on the inner face of the rotor.  Then, like TKO said, do it in order, and a tape measure works great for toe settings.  I do plan to make a clamp-on toe gauge though, just because it would be easy to use and cost next to nothing.  (It’s on the round tuit list along with a bunch of other stuff. )

I have used those super slick boat bunk slides as turning bearings. But the cost is high, so a set of turn plates is likely a good investment.

Oh, just one more thing..  if you have somebody else do your alignment, on 65-66 Mustangs, immediately check the torque on your strut rod bushing nuts.  I have seen some where they loosened them up, thinking that was how the caster was set.  (On later models, it IS, so I can almost understand their error).  Ditto for the UCA nuts on the shock towers. It seems very few alignment guys ( and some  FYI’ers) are negligent in properly tightening those, causing the shims to fall out, creating an unsafe condition.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

6/29/2018 6:18 AM  #17


Re: Alignment done at Pep Boys, Midas, Firestone etc?

After refreshing my whole front end Pep Boys was recommended. After noticing strut bushings were spinning, I was told older model cars don't need camber and Caster adjustment. Another Pep Boys had to go to Lowes for 1 1/8 wrench to fit strut rod nuts. Finally got it worked out then the guy left on the Firestone.

 

Board footera


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