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7/09/2018 6:47 AM  #26


Re: headlights headache

TKOPerformance wrote:

By being supplied by the same power source it still acts as resistance in the circuit, whether its directly in the A to B path to the headlight bulbs or not.  The current running through the rheostat hits a bottleneck, against which it has to flow, meaning amp draw increases, and thus amperage available for the other portions of the circuit connected to the same feed is now reduced.  It would only be inconsequential if the rheostat was in line after the headlight bulbs. 

But it's a completely different, parallel circuit.  If I applied your reasoning, the lights in my kitchen would come on when I turned on the bath fan, since both are supplied by the same source - the power coming into the house at the breaker panel.  All of the electrical "things" in the car are powered by a single source - the battery.  But there are numerous separate, parallel circuits supplied by the battery that provide power to different loads (lights, radio, horn, ignition, wipers, starter, etc.).  These circuits, when properly designed, do not affect each other.  The only impact to them all is when one circuit (such as the starter) draws a large amount of current and reduces the voltage available to all the other circuits.

The rheostat inside the light switch has it's own circuit and only affects the instrumentation lights.  This circuit represents a trivial load as far as the battery is concerned and has no impact on the brightness of the headlights.
 

Last edited by John Ha (7/09/2018 6:48 AM)


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7/09/2018 8:04 AM  #27


Re: headlights headache

Thanks John...I was getting worried.

BB


"you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
 

7/09/2018 8:21 AM  #28


Re: headlights headache

Bullet Bob wrote:

Thanks John...I was getting worried.BB

Thanks.  Love your signature, by the way.  :-)


Founding Member of the Perpetually Bewildered Society
 

7/09/2018 1:40 PM  #29


Re: headlights headache

John Ha wrote:

TKOPerformance wrote:

By being supplied by the same power source it still acts as resistance in the circuit, whether its directly in the A to B path to the headlight bulbs or not.  The current running through the rheostat hits a bottleneck, against which it has to flow, meaning amp draw increases, and thus amperage available for the other portions of the circuit connected to the same feed is now reduced.  It would only be inconsequential if the rheostat was in line after the headlight bulbs. 

But it's a completely different, parallel circuit.  If I applied your reasoning, the lights in my kitchen would come on when I turned on the bath fan, since both are supplied by the same source - the power coming into the house at the breaker panel.  All of the electrical "things" in the car are powered by a single source - the battery.  But there are numerous separate, parallel circuits supplied by the battery that provide power to different loads (lights, radio, horn, ignition, wipers, starter, etc.).  These circuits, when properly designed, do not affect each other.  The only impact to them all is when one circuit (such as the starter) draws a large amount of current and reduces the voltage available to all the other circuits.

The rheostat inside the light switch has it's own circuit and only affects the instrumentation lights.  This circuit represents a trivial load as far as the battery is concerned and has no impact on the brightness of the headlights.
 

Actually that's not where following my logic leads.  Resistance in a circuit has nothing to do with switching.  Multiple switches can, and often do, share the same circuit in a breaker panel.  Turning on one switch has no affect on the devices switched by the other switches in the circuit because each switch controls the switch leg for that particular device.  The device only comes on when power is applied through the switch, despite the switches, or even the devices directly sharing a common power feed.  You could also switch the device via the neutral, which I've also seen, though I believe that's frowned upon.  There's about three different ways to wire devices, but the only way a switch intended for one device turns on another is if something is wired wrong. 

On topic, upon review of the wiring diagrams, and lacking an actual switch schematic, its hard to say exactly what's going on in that switch.  Its clear that Ford used it as a junction as well as a switch.  What makes it hard to tell what's going on is that there is a wire incoming from the fuse panel for the interior lights, presumably so its voltage can be modified by the dimmer to dim those lights.  There is also a wire from the switch to the fuse panel for the instrument lights, which I must assume has also come through the dimmer to dim those lights.  If that wire is simply jumped through the switch from the interior light feed, why is it fused again?  I also question why it would be fused after its had its current potentially modified by the dimmer.  Strange though it would be, if that is indeed the case, then I must agree that the dimmer has no affect on the other lights because the lights it controls come from a parallel circuit.  I suppose anything is possible, but in an era where they used so few circuits I would be flatly astounded that they chose to in essence double fuse one circuit but allow others to go unfused entirely. 

It seems (to me anyway) more likely that the instrument lights are actually fed from the same power feed as the switch, and thus the dimmer is connected to the incoming power feed and could affect the output to the headlights.  All I can say for certain at this point is that it could be either way.  I think I have an old headlight switch that still works.  Experimentation seems in order...

 

7/09/2018 4:02 PM  #30


Re: headlights headache

I once spliced in relays to my original wiring in the engine bay. Lights were a bit brighter and it stopped the circuit breaker in the switch from tripping.
Then installed a harness from BB that had larger gauge wiring and better headlight plugs, ..... night and day difference.

The bottleneck is where the supply to the relay, changes over to the original 50yr old smaller gauge wiring.
It's the upgraded wiring and plugs, along with the relays that give it the increased voltage capacity .... IMHO.


"Those telephone poles were like a picket fence"
 

7/09/2018 4:04 PM  #31


Re: headlights headache


The Headlight switch is connected to the battery via terminal B, then breaks off into different parallel circuits as John says. The only common voltage drop is the small gauge wire from the battery the circuit breaker inside the switch. The curtesy switch uses a different fuse.


If this forum can't fix it, it isn't broke.
 

7/09/2018 6:56 PM  #32


Re: headlights headache

50vert wrote:

I once spliced in relays to my original wiring in the engine bay. Lights were a bit brighter and it stopped the circuit breaker in the switch from tripping.
Then installed a harness from BB that had larger gauge wiring and better headlight plugs, ..... night and day difference.

The bottleneck is where the supply to the relay, changes over to the original 50yr old smaller gauge wiring.
It's the upgraded wiring and plugs, along with the relays that give it the increased voltage capacity .... IMHO.

Absolutely.  I actually repinned the headlight plug bodies with new terminals so I could run 14 gauge wire instead of 16 gauge.  Doesn't seem like much, but it is a definite part of the improvement.  Plus, 50+ year old wiring with possible corrosion inside the wire, cracks in the insulation, etc.  Better off with fresh wiring anyway. 
 

 

7/09/2018 7:16 PM  #33


Re: headlights headache

wsinsle wrote:


The Headlight switch is connected to the battery via terminal B, then breaks off into different parallel circuits as John says. The only common voltage drop is the small gauge wire from the battery the circuit breaker inside the switch. The curtesy switch uses a different fuse.

Where did you find that?  All my searches turned up nothing, except a schematic for a '67 Camaro headlight switch...

So the instrument lighting feed is fused after the dimmer.  I suppose there was no other way to fuse it the way it's powered without jumping out the other headlight switch, going through a fuse, and jumping back into the switch to pick up the dimmer.  Still seems super Mickey Mouse, but then again, most of the wiring in these cars is just that. 

Based on that schematic it indeed seems that the rheostat would have little to no affect on the brightness of the headlights.  It seemed plausible.  Oh well, I'm man enough to admit when I'm wrong, but mark your calendars; it doesn't happen very often

 

7/09/2018 10:02 PM  #34


Re: headlights headache

YES YES YES!!! I sound delirious probably because I am..just took quite a few shots in the groin this morning(nerve blocker) it was so much no fun actually suct..ive had a hernia problem for acouple years now...anyway I haven't been able to work on the stang to many bad days from the hernia and the heat doesn't help...but I got to it a couple hours ago... after messing with stuff I traced everything back to the switch ...turns out the damn dimmer wire was barely loose you couldn't tell!! I got that sucker back in and walla headlights lights fixed...so time to find another headach before the nerve block wears off lol...anyway thanx for the help yall I appreciate it..i love this site!..now maybe time to install them relays.


"If Someone Did it on Youtube...So Can I...Well.....Unless its Heart Surgery,Thats Kinda Hard"
     Thread Starter
 

7/10/2018 5:21 PM  #35


Re: headlights headache

Vicfonz wrote:

YES YES YES!!! I sound delirious probably because I am..just took quite a few shots in the groin this morning(nerve blocker) it was so much no fun actually suct..ive had a hernia problem for acouple years now...anyway I haven't been able to work on the stang to many bad days from the hernia and the heat doesn't help...but I got to it a couple hours ago... after messing with stuff I traced everything back to the switch ...turns out the damn dimmer wire was barely loose you couldn't tell!! I got that sucker back in and walla headlights lights fixed...so time to find another headach before the nerve block wears off lol...anyway thanx for the help yall I appreciate it..i love this site!..now maybe time to install them relays.

So Vic I'm curious, after 30 + replies, does the front park lights still stay on when the headlights are on. BTW hope you get that issue straighten out, don't sound like fun.


If this forum can't fix it, it isn't broke.
 

7/10/2018 10:07 PM  #36


Re: headlights headache

lol... yes hernia has been on going for over 2 years..it sux..thanx...also yes the parking lights run along with the lights..but im pretty sure the previous owner wired it that way I remember they always ran

wsinsle wrote:

Vicfonz wrote:

YES YES YES!!! I sound delirious probably because I am..just took quite a few shots in the groin this morning(nerve blocker) it was so much no fun actually suct..ive had a hernia problem for acouple years now...anyway I haven't been able to work on the stang to many bad days from the hernia and the heat doesn't help...but I got to it a couple hours ago... after messing with stuff I traced everything back to the switch ...turns out the damn dimmer wire was barely loose you couldn't tell!! I got that sucker back in and walla headlights lights fixed...so time to find another headach before the nerve block wears off lol...anyway thanx for the help yall I appreciate it..i love this site!..now maybe time to install them relays.

So Vic I'm curious, after 30 + replies, does the front park lights still stay on when the headlights are on. BTW hope you get that issue straighten out, don't sound like fun.

 


"If Someone Did it on Youtube...So Can I...Well.....Unless its Heart Surgery,Thats Kinda Hard"
     Thread Starter
 

7/11/2018 5:00 AM  #37


Re: headlights headache

I hear ya, I've had one for over two years now too.  My crazy work schedule, new baby, etc. has kept me from being able to be laid up to recover from the surgery.  All the weight lifting I've done in my life and where does my stomach tear?  Right in my damn belly button where there is no muscle.  Later this year I'm going to have to get it done though I think.  Its not really debilitating, just annoying.  I tire of the whole it hurts, pop it back in, now lets see how long it stays dance.  Most days its fine, but others it seems like it just wont stay in or not cause me grief.  Ugh, I hate getting older, but my grandad was right: it beats the alternative!

 

7/11/2018 5:40 PM  #38


Re: headlights headache

yes they suck..ive been MIA from work since October....and this is the 2nd go around already had 2 surgeries and I might be looking at a 3rd one..smh...getting older fatter and greyer just sucks

TKOPerformance wrote:

I hear ya, I've had one for over two years now too.  My crazy work schedule, new baby, etc. has kept me from being able to be laid up to recover from the surgery.  All the weight lifting I've done in my life and where does my stomach tear?  Right in my damn belly button where there is no muscle.  Later this year I'm going to have to get it done though I think.  Its not really debilitating, just annoying.  I tire of the whole it hurts, pop it back in, now lets see how long it stays dance.  Most days its fine, but others it seems like it just wont stay in or not cause me grief.  Ugh, I hate getting older, but my grandad was right: it beats the alternative!

 


"If Someone Did it on Youtube...So Can I...Well.....Unless its Heart Surgery,Thats Kinda Hard"
     Thread Starter
 

7/11/2018 7:26 PM  #39


Re: headlights headache

I recently fixed 1/3 of that problem.  Hopefully it holds.  I had to make some major lifestyle and diet changes, but its been well, well worth it. 

Oh, and I'd take the gray over the thinning and loss.  I can't dye that away unfortunately...

The older part, well, not much can be done I think, but in the end I guess you really are only as old as you feel.  I'm feeling about 20 years younger now.  My grandmother was 87 when she died and she never seemed an old woman.  It was crazy to think she'd been born in 1919, because in conversation it was like talking to much younger people.  She never talked about her health, never complained about anything really, just wanted to know what you were doing.  She drank a glass of bourbon every night, hmn, maybe that was the secret?

 

7/12/2018 12:12 PM  #40


Re: headlights headache

true gray over thinning is better...glad you had some of the problem fixed..im almost there fingers crossed ...I like the burbon idea!!


"If Someone Did it on Youtube...So Can I...Well.....Unless its Heart Surgery,Thats Kinda Hard"
     Thread Starter
 

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