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67 cpe, 289, C4, daily driver
Runs great... however:
Exhaust smell is the worst I've ever had (7th classic mustang since 1992)
Summit carb (600 cfm?)
Consumes about 1 qt oil/month
Low oil pressure at idle (7-9 psi) after it warms up
I'm in San Diego and i'm running 20w-50 just to keep the pressure above 5psi
Cold compression:
cyl 1 = 155
cyl 2 = 155
cyl 3 = 155
cyl 4 = 160
cyl 5 = 165
cyl 6 = 170
cyl 7 = 165
cyl 8 = 160
Local shop I've worked with before can rebuild with RV cam for $1500.
Thoughts, ideas or alternatives?
Last edited by cgomate (10/05/2018 12:30 PM)
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Cylinder pressure is not too bad, but 155psi is a bit low for me. About at the bottom of the range.
Worn valve guides and/or seals will also increase oil consumption and foul the exhaust gasses.
Oil pressure - in Fords you get ~10psi/1,000 rpm, so your oil pressure at idle is correct. If you are really concerned, you can get an external oil pressure gauge at your local parts store and plug it in temporarily in place of the oil pressure sender just above the filter. Makes it easier to see the actual pressure while under the hood w/engine running. Run the engine up and watch the oil pressure rise. Anything less than that figure is not good. Bearings probably if pressure is low, but a bad or clogged pump screen can also cause low oil pressure.
Wow! I just noticed that my car photo under my name is no longer there! Anyone know why? They're all gone!
Last edited by lowercasesteve (10/05/2018 12:51 PM)
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Before switching to the 20w-50 oil, the pressure was below 5psi at idle... also, the sender & gauge are new aftermarket units, so i'm pretty sure its reading correctly.
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Compression doesn't look bad. They're all within 10%, and that assumes a perfect seal on the tester, etc.
The oil pressure is definitely too low, especially with that weight oil. Of course, that could be a couple things. It could be the bearings in the bottom end are shot, or it could just be a bad oil pump. I would pull the pan and drop a main cap or two and inspect the bearings. If they're all gouged up and straight copper then its rebuild time. If they look okay then I'd replace the oil pump and see what that does for the pressure.
It does sound like you may be burning some oil, but that can also be caused by a number of things (rings, valve seals, valve guides, PCV system, etc.). A compression test only tells you so much. You need to do a leak down test to see if the rings are shot, or you can squirt some oil in the cylinders and retest to see if the numbers increase. If they do, the rings are bad. If they don't its a top end issue.
Before undertaking a rebuild I would want to know what all they are doing for that price. Exactly what machining operations, and parts will be used. Personally I'd take that opportunity to improve performance a bit with a little better cam. Its certainly more money, but I'd seriously consider upgrading to a roller cam. Otherwise you're tied to adding ZDDP to the oil at every change to keep a flat tappet cam from going flat. Also, the roller will make more torque all over. Definitely adds some cost to the rebuild, but if you do nothing else you'll still be happy you did it.
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Just curious. Did the stinky exh start happening when you installed that 600cfm pot? 600 seems like a bit too many for a stockish 289 and especially if it was never jetted properly. Most over the counter carbs seems to be jetted a bit fat, in my very limited experience, and running rich will surely contribute to eye-watering exhaust.
BB
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lowercasesteve wrote:
Wow! I just noticed that my car photo under my name is no longer there! Anyone know why? They're all gone!
The company that you went through to put up the pictures wants money to keep them up there now. There is now a new company being used that is free.
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Just as an aside when I was doing chip tuning almost every time a customer said their vehicle smelled rich or was burning their eyes it was actually lean. Now this was EFI so maybe completely different, but A/F ratio is A/F ratio. What do the plugs look like?
Sadly your larger problem is the low oil pressure, I'd stop running it before you hurt it.
Last edited by Raymond_B (10/05/2018 7:33 PM)
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cgomate wrote:
67 cpe, 289, C4, daily driver
Runs great... however:
Exhaust smell is the worst I've ever had (7th classic mustang since 1992)
Summit carb (600 cfm?)
Consumes about 1 qt oil/month
Low oil pressure at idle (7-9 psi) after it warms up
I'm in San Diego and i'm running 20w-50 just to keep the pressure above 5psi
Cold compression:
cyl 1 = 155
cyl 2 = 155
cyl 3 = 155
cyl 4 = 160
cyl 5 = 165
cyl 6 = 170
cyl 7 = 165
cyl 8 = 160
Local shop I've worked with before can rebuild with RV cam for $1500.
Thoughts, ideas or alternatives?
Hello , my 289 was rebuild month ago and is not modified , runs good , no oil refill or burnt , and oil pump pressure is 3/4 on the gauge quite always . Higher oil consumption is not a good sign , but i will double check pump and related . On rebuilding i ask for modern valve seal instead of umbrella seats in valve heads . Seems it works as promised . Maybe think about it if you will work the engine . Maybe a light service with new rings , and some else can solve all the issue .
My carb is the original autolite . I bought a new one holley 600 because in my mind should work at best with a rebuild engine.
i was very far from that !
new holley 600 was too big and all i have done to tune it was useless.
I sold the holley and refurbished the autolite that works great .
There is a little smell with dark colored smoke on exaust ( just on starts), and yes is spitting black water when cold .
i am buying some jets to make carb little lean...
There are many different opinion about how should it be big , 600 , 500 .... but for what i search , read , and take info around the web , the 390 or 450 should be the need for a 289 not modified .
imho .
Ps : i love San Diego , travel California from south to north was the best of my life !
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I agree that a 600 for a stockish 289 is too big. I run a 500 Edelbrock 1403. I really like the carb, very easy to tune. I am down 1 jet size with stock metering rods on the primaries and 1 jet size on the secondaries (not 100% sure that's the best power yet, still testing). I tried a lot of combinations to arrive at that. The good thing about them is that its easy to tell when you've gone too lean; you get surging, and just go back to the previous jet and/or rod combo.
The choke is easy to set if needed (never touched mine, worked great out of the box), and the high idle is easy to set too. Idle speed/mixture is also quite simple.
Plus, a bare minimum of contact with fuel when making changes. Not messy at all to work on. The only downside are those little clips they use for the various linkage rods, three of which must be removed to remove the top cover.
My combo is a Ford reman A code 289, Edlebrock Performer intake, 1403 carb, JBA headers, 2-1/2" Magnaflow exhaust, Pertronix in a stock distributor, Pertronix coil, and Pertronix wires. Plus I think the Hi-Po valve covers added some power too With timing & advance curve set properly and the carb tuned its like a totally different car.
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I've got a 289 in my 66 with stock lower end and heads, Edelbrock cam, Performer intake and performer 600carb. Pertronix in stock distributor. I pulled it from a one owner Fairlane with a well documented maintenance history at 90,000. We did a compression test and bearing check, replaced the valve seals and put it in the car. It's got over 100,000 on it and run great. Oil pressure is over 25 at idle. Even with tuning it does run rich at idle so I can see where a smaller carb would help. Otherwise it runs great, no over heating with 6 blade fan and no shroud. I agree that you should do some testing before you commit to a rebuild.
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Did another round of compression tests today.
This time I did a dry test and a "wet" test... adding a bit of oil to each cyl.
CYL DRY WET
1 150 164
2 150 168
3 160 180
4 155 179
5 150 179
6 160 184
7 160 180
8 160 200
Last edited by cgomate (10/06/2018 7:48 PM)
Online!
I say.......DRIVE IT like ye stole it! While you're building a 5.0 in your spare time and as $$$ permits. Obvious the rings are worn.....bearings/oil pump worn....valve seals worn..... Looks like you " bout-got-all-the-goodie-out-of-it"!!
DON'T let some "shop" take all the fun out of putting together an engine for your Mustang. It is truly one of THE most satisfying things you will ever do to your Mustang!! Maybe in your life!! Its right up there with sex (IMHO) when you fire that newly rebuilt engine...and it comes roaring to life(open headers, of course!) The "sweet feel'in" you get in your chest (and other regions) when it purrrrs/or rumbles when you flip the primaries open for the first time!
Nothing like it.
Don't let that "shop" rob you of one of the high points in your life!!
Jus say'in
6sally6
Last edited by 6sally6 (10/06/2018 8:12 PM)
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6sally6 wrote:
I say.......DRIVE IT like ye stole it! While you're building a 5.0 in your spare time and as $$$ permits. Obvious the rings are worn.....bearings/oil pump worn....valve seals worn..... Looks like you " bout-got-all-the-goodie-out-of-it"!!
DON'T let some "shop" take all the fun out of putting together an engine for your Mustang. It is truly one of THE most satisfying things you will ever do to your Mustang!! Maybe in your life!! Its right up there with sex (IMHO) when you fire that newly rebuilt engine...and it comes roaring to life(open headers, of course!) The "sweet feel'in" you get in your chest (and other regions) when it purrrrs/or rumbles when you flip the primaries open for the first time!
Nothing like it.
Don't let that "shop" rob you of one of the high points in your life!!
Jus say'in
6sally6
Sally - Do you want your wife to see this? - :-)
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cgomate wrote:
Did another round of compression tests today.
This time I did a dry test and a "wet" test... adding a bit of oil to each cyl.
CYL DRY WET
1 150 164
2 150 168
3 160 180
4 155 179
5 150 179
6 160 184
7 160 180
8 160 200
Well, sad to say, the rings are shot. That isn't affecting the oil pressure though, so I'd still drop the pan and check the bearings. If the bearings are okay I say slap an oil pump in it and at least you've got something to drive while sorting out another engine.
6sally6 and I are on the same page with build it yourself. I'd look for a good used Explorer/Mountaineer engine with GT40 heads. Create some goals, figure out a build budget, and go from there. Checking around Craigslist for someone else's project is another good way to say a lot of cash. Definitely start with a 5.0 roller block though. It saves you $300-$350 on doing a roller cam conversion to a non-roller block. Your area may vary, but typically you can find a good 5.0 engine for $200-$250 in my area.
Online!
Sure!! She's seen it!! ....Get the big 'eye-roll' everytime I play it.(I think it is Ho-Ho-larious)
One more thang about the engine problem.....5.0 engines are still pretty durn plentiful and reasonably priced (at least around here) They stuck'em in EVERYTHING..from Po-Po cars to momz soccer-haul'in vehickz and everything in between.
A rebuildable 289 block will sell for waaaay more than what you pay for the 5.0. (Especially if you part it out) heads...crank...rodz...short block...ect.
On top of that....a GT-40 (or GT-40P) would be even a better deal. All things considered....your laborz free...you could build a sah-weeeet hot rod motor for a lot less than buying one from a "shop" or jobber.
Think abow-d-it!?!
6sally6
PS....I will help you with the cam selection!.....Ck that YouTube Vid again!!!!
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I agree with others, check pressure with another gauge. Probably time for a rebuild though. High oil consumption could be from worn valve guides and seals. Those old umbrella seals are just about useless. By the time you really need them from valve guide wear, they’re long dried out and in your oil pan. Worn bearings will allow excessive oil thrown up on the bottom of the cylinder walls. The oil ring may not be able to handle the extra oil especially if worn.
The GT40P makes a good option. They were the last 5.0’s build for for the last 4 or 5 years production run. Even with 200k miles these motors have a lot of life left in them. MS himself just picked up a 300K motor and said it looked brand new inside. You can probably pick one up for probably around $300 or less if you look around. Even with their altered plug angle the stock exhaust manifold can be made to work very easily. You will need the correct flywheel and balancer along with a Melonized gear for the distributor. Non of which are terribly expensive. These motors are a night and day difference even in stock form from your 289.
Here’s my swap
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Its the carburetor. I would put another on and try it or put some new jets in the summit. Mine would do the same thing with Carter carburetor I had. When I switched the carb It was much better. Just driving your car more helps too. When its sitting in the garage at idle and that's all you do you'll get that rich exhaust smell.
Steve69
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6sally6 wrote:
I say.......DRIVE IT like ye stole it! While you're building a 5.0 in your spare time and as $$$ permits. Obvious the rings are worn.....bearings/oil pump worn....valve seals worn..... Looks like you " bout-got-all-the-goodie-out-of-it"!!
DON'T let some "shop" take all the fun out of putting together an engine for your Mustang. It is truly one of THE most satisfying things you will ever do to your Mustang!! Maybe in your life!! Its right up there with sex (IMHO) when you fire that newly rebuilt engine...and it comes roaring to life(open headers, of course!) The "sweet feel'in" you get in your chest (and other regions) when it purrrrs/or rumbles when you flip the primaries open for the first time!
Nothing like it.
Don't let that "shop" rob you of one of the high points in your life!!
Jus say'in
6sally6
I totally agree with this!!!
Low oil pressure at idle doesn’t hurt anything as long as the lifters stay pumped up and don’t clatter. As long as it isn’t smoking, you can probably fix the smell with carb and timing changes. Your compression numbers do not look out of the ordinary.
Be sure air cleaner top is not too close to the carb’s bowl vent tubes. It can cause extra rich mixture due to lower atmospheric pressure the fuel in the bowls is seeing.
As for oil consumption, a leaking intake gasket or a PCV valve in a valve cover that is not properly baffled will suck the oil mist that develops in the valve cover and burn oil like crazy.
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It’s possible the carburetor is dumping raw gas into the intake which eventually makes its way to the crankcase. If the oil gets deluded with gas it’s going to be thin. This will certainly explain low oil pressure and high oil consumption and smelly exhaust
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The compression test improving with the addition of oil points to the rings being worn at the very least. Low oil pressure and oil consumption could have other causes, but I've yet to see anything but worn rings produce those results on a compression test.
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