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A friend of mine has a '73 Ranchero with an '81 351C engine and an AOD transmission. He has a TV rod to actuate the shifting. The vehicle has a 2.75:1 rear axle ratio. He has had the valve body and governor replaced and the transmission has been looked at 3 different times by 3 different shops for faults and none have been found.
He has gone through the setup instructions a number of times. Setting the pressure to 32-35 psi with the 10 mm spacer between the throttle bump and the kickdown lever has been repeated many times. Removal of the spacer block while running at idle in N, the pressure goes to zero as it should.
Road tests reveal a very late shift out of 1st gear....then right into 3rd and then OD almost simulaneously afterward. Basically it's shifting through the gears too quickly making the vehicle bog. Is it possible that it is shifting like this because of the prairie gear 2.75:1 rear axle ratio? Should the ratio be more like 3.70:1 to accomodate the OD ratio built into the AOD transmission? Any advise would be appreciated. This problem is driving him crazy.
Thanks
John
Last edited by kickdownrod John (10/27/2018 2:08 PM)
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Just a little "conversation" to bump-to-the-top" butt. A big "Rancher-roo"(as my uncle usta call'em) with 2.75:1 gears AND OD!??!
No way that thang will reach any fantastic top end speeds...(its an aerodynamic BRICK with a open space in the back of it). So rule out massive top end speed.
Can't see how the 351 will ever get to a point in OD where it will NOT be straining its "internal-guts" out soooo rule out super gas mileage.
NON-blazing torque is a given soooo rule that out.
MAYBE......with a super high horse power engine (like 500+) and a long enough straight area (think Bonneville)...it could be useful butt......
Could always switch to a T-5!...That way you could hold it in the best gear to get something out of it.
I can see 50mph in 1st.........80mph in 2nd.......3rd the speedo should be buried!
I'd change the gear to a more "useful" ratio and see if the OD would work better. Sure can't hurt!!
6sally6
PS welcome to the MS Forum.. BTW!
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The gears are low for a performance car, BUT that's what most 5.0s had and they used the AOD.
Regardless, that's not your problem. Has he tried shifting it manually? In most autos the manual valve will override everything else. If its shifts where he wants when done manually you can say the trans is generally good, and the shifting issue is caused by the TV adjustment, or something else in the valvebody.
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Are you using a stock 73 Ford shifter?? That is indexed for a C4??
The AOD indexing is slightly different, you might be sitting between gear selection. One way fix it is to adapt a fox body or later cable shifter, for AOD, AODE or 4r70w. I made a shifter linkage to work with my AOD in 65 2+2, never was happy with it. Junked it with the AOD when I upgraded to 4r70w
Or do like TKO suggested and manually select
Tubo
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The joys of an AOD Shoulda listened to Tubo and built a 4R70W. On my 393W with 3.25 gears, when I set up the oem TV cable per the correct setting (no slack,no pressure), the trans did pretty much what yours did, shifting early and skipping second. On an AOD, if you manually shift from first gear, it goes directly into third. That is unless you do the "AOD shuffle", by shifting from first, then immediately shifting back into first. This causes the trans to use second gear, but is very hard on the intermediate clutch pack and snap ring. However, a few folks online say they've put 100k miles on their AOD using the shuffle shift.
Per a tip online (can't remember if it was Click Click Racing or Baumann or...), I tightened the connector at the carb about an 1/8 inch. They also say to go to 1/4" if needed. The 1/8" made a world of difference, shifted later and also used 2nd gear!
I recommend switching to 3.70 gears. I swapped in 3.70 gears as when in OD, the final ratio is ~2.50:1. I should have my muffler swap done tonight so I'll be able to check out the 3.70's. If my name was Sally I'd be driving it now w/o mufflers
Last edited by rpm (10/26/2018 2:30 PM)
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Well, thanks a ton for the very timely and varied things to try. I will pass these on to my friend and put them in my own archives for future use. Much appreciated!!
Thanks Again!!
John
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I have an AOD in my 65 behind a stock 302 HO, running 3:55 gear set in the rear. Prior to changing the rear gears I was running 3.00. It really seemed like the 3,00 was bogging the engine down in OD. I can't imagine what the 2.75 would be like. As far as it shifting early, my AOD would do that when the TV cable was set up as per the instructions. I put more pull into the cable at idle and then took it out for a drive, and added more until it shifted like I thought it should. Unless someone can show me otherwise, I've read where more pressure is not going to damage the transmission like not enough pressure will. My AOD has a shift kit installed and I drive it like a stolen 4 speed most of the time.
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Thanks for that info, Terry. This Ranchero is a 4000 pound car so the 3.70 should do the trick. He's going to take the transmission out one more time, check things out AGAIN, and then reinstall but he's also ordered a 3.70 gear set for the 9" rear. He's also using my TV rod so he'll probably be ok after making those changes.
Thanks again.
John
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My lil parts chaser has the 4L-460 tranny and its always shifted sorta funny!?! I've hesitatant to fool with the TV cable because I've been cautioned "if" they're out of adjustment it will damage the tranny!
It shifts from 1st to 2nd about 10mph! Goes from 2nd to third...third to lock-up...lock-up to OD pretty normal(I guess) I mean it has 250,000 on it and I "-oh no I used a word I shouldn't have--u-me" that's normal....its my normal, maybe!?!
I wonder?????.....IF I try tightening the TV cable a few notches would I do any harm???? On the other hand.....250,000 and it pulls/tows/drives just fine the way it is.....hummmmmm???
I do have a shift kit in it and a Corvette(ooops..the secrets out!) servo in it so it will "chirp'em" going into 2nd almost every time without effort.
Maybe "leave-well-enough-alone" would be good advice. Whata y'all think?!
6sal6
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terry wrote:
I put more pull into the cable at idle and then took it out for a drive, and added more until it shifted like I thought it should. Unless someone can show me otherwise, I've read where more pressure is not going to damage the transmission like not enough pressure will. My AOD has a shift kit installed and I drive it like a stolen 4 speed most of the time.
I agree fully with this info Terry.
Sally, tighten the tv at the carb in 1/8" increments until you're happy with it. You can thank us later.
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With that many miles on it, I think I would try some of that auto transmission additive that is supposed to remove lacquer buildup. I don't think I would mess with the adjustment, though, unless the cable has signs of fraying in which case I would replace it and make it right again.
JMHO
John
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rpm wrote:
terry wrote:
I put more pull into the cable at idle and then took it out for a drive, and added more until it shifted like I thought it should. Unless someone can show me otherwise, I've read where more pressure is not going to damage the transmission like not enough pressure will. My AOD has a shift kit installed and I drive it like a stolen 4 speed most of the time.
I agree fully with this info Terry.
Sally, tighten the tv at the carb in 1/8" increments until you're happy with it. You can thank us later.
The only thing that method may create for you is stretching or fraying the cable which is a problem with the cables on AOD setups. They can only take so much tension.
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terry wrote:
I have an AOD in my 65 behind a stock 302 HO, running 3:55 gear set in the rear. Prior to changing the rear gears I was running 3.00. It really seemed like the 3,00 was bogging the engine down in OD. I can't imagine what the 2.75 would be like. As far as it shifting early, my AOD would do that when the TV cable was set up as per the instructions. I put more pull into the cable at idle and then took it out for a drive, and added more until it shifted like I thought it should. Unless someone can show me otherwise, I've read where more pressure is not going to damage the transmission like not enough pressure will. My AOD has a shift kit installed and I drive it like a stolen 4 speed most of the time.
If you even want to get away from a cable in favor of a TV rod for that, I can help you.
John
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Tubo wrote:
Are you using a stock 73 Ford shifter?? That is indexed for a C4??
The AOD indexing is slightly different, you might be sitting between gear selection. One way fix it is to adapt a fox body or later cable shifter, for AOD, AODE or 4r70w. I made a shifter linkage to work with my AOD in 65 2+2, never was happy with it. Junked it with the AOD when I upgraded to 4r70w
Or do like TKO suggested and manually select
Tubo
Column shift. He says he can feel the detents and they are in synchrony.
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John, you have any pics of that fabulous kickdown rod you speak of? And how about a price???
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kickdownrod John wrote:
rpm wrote:
terry wrote:
I put more pull into the cable at idle and then took it out for a drive, and added more until it shifted like I thought it should. Unless someone can show me otherwise, I've read where more pressure is not going to damage the transmission like not enough pressure will. My AOD has a shift kit installed and I drive it like a stolen 4 speed most of the time.
I agree fully with this info Terry.
Sally, tighten the tv at the carb in 1/8" increments until you're happy with it. You can thank us later.The only thing that method may create for you is stretching or fraying the cable which is a problem with the cables on AOD setups. They can only take so much tension.
C'mon man. Seriously?
So... as many times the throttle gets used thru its full range is ok, but putting 1/8 to 1/4 inch of setup tension will cause it to fray??? I don't buy it.
That tv cable is an ingenious design imo. Why ditch the Ford design which has worked on tens Of thousands of vehicles? There's a reason Ford did away with the rod. Many folks upgrade to a brass bushing due to wear, which I believe is a good idea.
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rpm wrote:
kickdownrod John wrote:
rpm wrote:
I agree fully with this info Terry.
Sally, tighten the tv at the carb in 1/8" increments until you're happy with it. You can thank us later.The only thing that method may create for you is stretching or fraying the cable which is a problem with the cables on AOD setups. They can only take so much tension.
C'mon man. Seriously?
So... as many times the throttle gets used thru its full range is ok, but putting 1/8 to 1/4 inch of setup tension will cause it to fray??? I don't buy it.
That tv cable is an ingenious design imo. Why ditch the Ford design which has worked on tens Of thousands of vehicles? There's a reason Ford did away with the rod. Many folks upgrade to a brass bushing due to wear, which I believe is a good idea.
You don't have to buy it. Metal parts have physical limits.
Ford's TV rod design, the connections of which I've greatly improved, was discontinued because a rod could not be used after 85 due to the fact that EFI unit's throttle lever location was placed on the right side of the engine that could only be actuated with a cable. The more tension you put on a cable over it's intended design tension WILL make it prone to failure via fraying or stretching. A mechanical fact.
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