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10/27/2018 7:36 PM  #1


Roller Lifter Question

So, I was installing the roller lifters in my 351W tonight and I noticed these holes.  I assume they are oil holes since these are hydraulic lifters.  Do they need to be in any special orientation? (They'd have to face either up or down due to where the flats spots are that interface with the "dog bones")

 

10/27/2018 8:04 PM  #2


Re: Roller Lifter Question

Ok.  I did some googling and found that the orientation of this hole doesn't seem to matter.

     Thread Starter
 

10/27/2018 9:04 PM  #3


Re: Roller Lifter Question

Hmmmmmmmmmm!!....Somebody we know building a 351?!
How old are those lifters?
6sal6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

10/28/2018 8:26 AM  #4


Re: Roller Lifter Question

Daze was working on a 351 Windsor.


John  -- 67 Mustang Coupe 390 5 speed
 

10/28/2018 12:49 PM  #5


Re: Roller Lifter Question

6Sally6,
I'm building this 351W with GT40 heads to go in my daily driver '91 F150... should be a nice upgrade from the 300 straight six.

The lifters are the original roller lifters from the '95 351W, but I'm going to use them.  Supposedly this engine had less than 100,000 miles on it.  I've got a friend with a roller cam 302 that he rebuilt at 300,000 miles and put the same roller lifters back into it.  That was over 10 years ago...I'm not sure how many miles he's up to now, but it's got to be at least around 400,000.

     Thread Starter
 

10/28/2018 2:49 PM  #6


Re: Roller Lifter Question

You can take the lifters and roller them across the inside of your forearm.  If you don't feel any sticky spots they should be fine.  Your sense of touch is extremely sensitive there, and I've used this test for years with no failures as a result.  The lifter bore around the lifter is essentially full of pressurized oil, so I can't see the orientation of that hole making any difference.  I assume its the inlet for pressurized oil to pump up the lifter. 

 

10/28/2018 4:43 PM  #7


Re: Roller Lifter Question

"Don't-mean-no-harm-BUTT........." When I built the "old-hot-rod" 5.0 I used the original lifters. (no clue how many miles on'em.)
After "a while"...not sure maybe a couple years...I had what was determined as....catastrophic lifter failure!  Roller(s) from several lifter was ground half off..a couple were completely gone! Ground up and inside pan. According to the camshaft grinder...."Mike, these lifters don't last FOREVER man"!
Funny thing...I drove all the way back from Texas with them in that condition!!!
I pulled the engine apart and cleaned it out and installed new roller lifters and re-ground cam. Delta Cams reground it "no-charge"!!
Now.....that DON'T mean you're gonna run into the same situ.....just shar'in!!.
(please tell me you put in a "healthy" grind!!!
Anxious to see the pix and performance
6sally6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

10/28/2018 6:53 PM  #8


Re: Roller Lifter Question

Wow... You got away with only changing the lifters and cam?... amazing.
After hearing that story I think I'll give those lifters a second look.

As far as the cam being a healthy grind... unfortunately not.  It's going in a truck so it's a cam made for low RPM...pretty much all done by 5000 RPM.  Also, It's going to fueled by the stock Speed Density EFI, so that really limits cam choice. (Hopefully I can convert it to Mass Air EFI down the road).

I'm building this to the same specs as a guy over on the Ford trucks forum.  His dyno'd at 300hp at 4800 RPM.  I don't remember the torque it made, but I figure making 300hp at that low of an RPM it should be pretty torquey.  In any case it should be a pretty noticeable gain over the 150hp 300 I6 in the truck now.

     Thread Starter
 

10/28/2018 7:23 PM  #9


Re: Roller Lifter Question

Im putting a 351W roller back together.  I noticed half the roller lifter springs were stuck and didn't compress.  I bought some new ones on LMR for $119. 

 

10/28/2018 8:57 PM  #10


Re: Roller Lifter Question

Yeah......dodged a bullet.........I guess?! First (and last I hope) time it ever happened to me.  Knicked up the cam butt not terrible. Most of the roller "wheels" material was ground up pretty small. Some chunks were in the pan. Wiped it out with  Brakleen(no kidd'in) and rags. AND A/T fluid. No issues after several years!!!
What Steve said "MIGHT" just be good insurance.  Shop around for best price cause I think )like most stuff) a couple companys make all the lifters and just re-box'em.
Delta Cam beat Summits price butt it coulda been because we had a relationship. You might call him (Ken)  1-(800)562 5500. Tell'em he hooked me up....how bout chew?!!
6sal6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

10/29/2018 7:11 AM  #11


Re: Roller Lifter Question

There are about three companies that make lifters.  Above and beyond that you are paying for marketing based on whose name is on the box.  If you look at all the options you'll see that a Summit lifter looks exactly like a Trick Flow lifter, etc.  However, I would stick with Ford branded lifters because Ford's criteria for suppliers and quality is typically higher than anyone else.  If they will put their name on it that means something worth paying a few dollars more. 

6sally6, you got incredibly lucky.  Most of the time when I've seen a roller lifter failure the needles come out and lock up the oil pump and its bad, really bad.  Most times you're lucky if the engine is even rebuildable. 

More power than the 300 I6?  Surely, BUT torque is a funny thing.  Those I6s were torque monsters, especially with EFI.  Not sure what published  numbers were, but I would bet that the I6 actually made more torque than the 5.0, and at lower RPM.  Its basic physics.  The I6 has the same displacement, with considerably larger cylinders, specifically because it has a longer stroke.  All that adds up to torque.  Its how Diesels have done it for years, and why a Cummins always made more torque than a V engine, even though it was governed at 2,500 RPM (that's not a misprint)! 

Obviously the 5.0 has a lot of advantages, and the 5.8 has all those plus more displacement, so I'm not saying the swaps a bad idea or anything.  I had a couple of those 300 I6s over the years and always wondered what I could do with one power wise.  Oh well, another project that'll never come to fruition, but its fun bench racing. 

 

10/30/2018 8:21 PM  #12


Re: Roller Lifter Question

I think Sal’s lifter failures were more from the addition of a huge cam and valve springs. If he had stock stuff, they would probably still be working.  Not that he should not have put a big cam and springs in, just that those two things shortened the life of an older set of lifters.
My lifters in my “new” 5.0 have 300,000 miles on them, but I am going with stock GT cam and valve springs, and several crossed fingers.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

10/31/2018 7:49 AM  #13


Re: Roller Lifter Question

Hey Sally,  I was going to give you a ride at the Bash in Glen Rose;but, I didn't see you.  Maybe in Michigan.


Mustang Steve Bash in Gruene, Texas September29-30, 2023
 

10/31/2018 5:34 PM  #14


Re: Roller Lifter Question

YEAH!!!! Hate I missed it Al.............Durn hurricane sorta got in the way  and family issue.
Next year fer sure...fer sure.
6sal6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

10/31/2018 6:01 PM  #15


Re: Roller Lifter Question

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/5days-in-5-minutes-hemi.1127638/

This "kinda" what you're do'in Michael.......sorta?!
6s6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

11/01/2018 8:13 AM  #16


Re: Roller Lifter Question

Yep... more or less... but theirs is way cooler and It's already taken me more than 5 days.
I really dig their custom intake and headers...way cool!

If you're interested in how I'm building it I'm pretty much building it exactly like the guy in this link did, except I think I'll probably use long tube headers if I can find some that will fit.  Coincidentally, that guy is just a couple hours up the road from me... maybe I'll get to meet him someday.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1475174-scndsins-5-8-build.html

 

     Thread Starter
 

11/01/2018 5:29 PM  #17


Re: Roller Lifter Question

You ever "confir" with dummernhell(part of the MS crew) about parts and shops? He lives near your neck-o-the-woodz. Dons a good old boy butt......works a lot out of state so it might be tough catch'in up with him!!
6sal6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

11/02/2018 9:18 AM  #18


Re: Roller Lifter Question

We live in the same town, but I've never actually met him or even talked to him other than on the forum.

     Thread Starter
 

11/02/2018 1:40 PM  #19


Re: Roller Lifter Question

Well worth the "seek-out"!!
Really nice and knowledgeable  fella butt.........totally stone-cold off-the-chain crazy (in a good way). 
6s6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

Board footera


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