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I'm starting to move forward, I found a local shop close by, I dropped off my 69 351w long block.They are
going to check it out to see if it can be rebuilt. If it can't be rebuilt, then I can look into a crate engine. Using
the iron heads would I be ok with 10 to 1 compression? I'm checking into a mild cam, from what I have read on this forum, I may have to go with a edelbrock performer intake (no rpm) for hood clearance, maybe a drop down air cleaner base. I don't want to cut the hood, if there are any other low rise intakes please let me know. To
everyone on this forum,especially Steve,THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HELP! I can swap engines trans etc, but
I don't get into rebuilding engines, I put 2 new quarter panels 2 used doors,1 used trunk, an after market front end on my car and painted it my self, after 19 years it still looks like show room condition. I did rebuildables
for about 20 years before I did my 67. My friends say, I wouldn't change that engine(289), lately my reply is
when is the last time YOU drove MY CAR. Any way's this will be the first of many questions I will be asking.
This is the best forum for mustang knowledge! THANKS TO ALL mustang stu
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With your '67 there should be room for something other than a Performer. First gen Mustangs are the ones with the height problem under hood. I needed a drop down for my '66.
I'm not sure about the cr though.
If you are rebuilding and want a little more power, Two things you can do inexpensively. Remove the thermactor hump in the exhaust port and clean up the area immediately under the valves. I assume you will be rebuilding and will be giving the heads a valve job w/hardened exhaust ports. The next step would be port matching all the runners. That added cost would make aluminum heads cost effective.
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If a Cleveland with a I" higher Blue Thunder intake fits, so will a Windsor.
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Stu...as you know, I really like camshaft questions!
10:1 cr would be really "pushing-the-envelope" with iron heads and pump gas especially with a "mild" camshaft.
Increased duration on the cam works by "trapping" more fuel mixture earlier by opening the intake valve sooner. THEN when the piston gets to TDC it has a whole bunch of fuel mixture to ignite.(pretty primitive explanation) Than in effect increases the cr above what is already built into the heads. Results pinging.
The "mild" cam usually has a long(er) LSA of about 112* to smooth out the idle at low RPM and give a longer power range(RPM). 1200-6500RPM
The "FIX" would be a camshaft with an LSA of about 108-110*. In addition to the "hot rod/snotty idle" I think is soooo cool.... it ALSO allows some of that "cr" to be bled off at lower RPMs.(where "most" pinging happens) The intake valve still opens earlier to trap more mixture BUTT.....the exhaust closes a little later. This is where the "bleed-off" of cr takes place. AND the mixture getting diluted with exhaust and exhaust getting diluted with intake mixture. Hence the rough(er) idle. The results is....big power increase at low(er) RPM butt a shorter power range 1500-5800RPM.
Rear gear and whether its a manual or automatic tranny weight of car, ambient temperature, engine temperature are all considerations.
Al. heads.......10:1 cr is fine.
Iron heads...9.5:1cr is fine.
I recommend you.........................."CAM IT UP LIKE THE BIG BOYS"! and re-live your teenage years!!
6sally6
Hope I didn't drone on-and-on too much butt................its slow on the board and "somebody" needs to chat!!!
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9.5:1 is max compression for iron heads with a carb. EFI you could go to 10:1. Sure, you read about it sometimes, but the devil's in the details they never tell you. Things like a cam that bleeds off cylinder pressure at low RPM, and a loose converter that doesn't load the engine until 3,500 RPM, they run Cam2 for fuel, etc.
The compression also needs to be matched to the engine. What's your intended powerband? How much power are you looking to make? You an make 1HP per cube with 9:1 compression, maybe less.
Its like most things, you can make a lot of power on a dyno with a combination that is never going to work in an actual car. I don't think you'll have hood clearance issues though. I run a Performer intake with a 1" spacer and an Edelbrock 500 with a repro HiPo air cleaner on my 289. It clears the hood by a good 1.5" A Performer RPM is going to be taller, so you will probably have to forgo the 1" carb spacer (another thing that would likely show a decent HP bump on a dyno), but I don't think you'll need a drop base air cleaner. I always found those kind of funny anyway. I mean, the carb is breathing through the space between the lid and the base. A 4" tall filter in a drop base setup where there's only 1.5" of clearance between the base and lid is the same as running a 1.5": tall filter in a regular air cleaner.
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Thanks for all the input so far! The 67 drive train is a 4 spd wide ratio top loader, a shorted drive shaft, a 9" ford rear end 325 to 1.From what I have read 9.5 to 1 seem's to be the limit for iron heads. Still checking out intakes, I know the 351w is taller than a 289. Waiting to hear about the block's
condition, what's the most it could be bored 30 or 40 over? I don't want to run into heating problems
I already have a351 radiator in the car, and I have 69 big block (390) radiator for back up if needed
4 core, like new. Hoping to know more about the block after next week. Looking at comp cams
flat tappet 1000 to 5500 rpm (nothing written in stone here). Thanks mustang stu
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A '69 block can be bored at least 0.040" so long as there's no abnormal core shift. It might even be able to go 0.060". I would bore it the least amount possible to fully clean the bore up. That way there's meat left for a future rebuild. I wouldn't worry about boring leading to overheating. Every engine I've ever rebuilt was bored at least 0.030" and none of them ever had any overheating issues as a result. So long as the components are matched so coolant flows through the engine properly (head gaskets mach heads and block, intake gaskets match intake, etc.) it won't be an issue with a properly sized radiator, fan, t-stat, and water pump. Personally I'd avoid the 4 core radiators; I've never found them to be more effective than a 3 core. The tubes are packed so densely that airflow through the core is restricted to the point where the additional row of tubes offers nothing in terms of actual heat removal, and in fact may make the situation worse. If you want better cooling go aluminum, which rejects heat a lot better than copper/brass.
If you're power band is going to be done at 5,500 then there's no reason to play things dangerous with compression. What you really want is an engine that hits hard from 1,500RPM-3,500RPM, which is where a street engine spends most of its time. A cam that's going to make that happen is going to bolster low speed compression by having very little overlap due to its wider LSA. I'd design it for 9:1, and take into account things like the head gasket volume, piston deck height, piston dish/valve relief volume, etc. A lot of guys think they have 9.5:1 or more, but when you really look at it all they took into account was the chamber volume and bore. Its nowhere near accurate, because different head gaskets can easily be used to change compression by half a point. Personally I like to zero deck the block and set quench distance with the head gasket to 0.040". This creates an engine that's most responsive off the line because it make flame front propagation as fast as possible without worrying about the piston smacking the head at higher RPM.
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I'm running a 351W with a Performer intake, 1" spacer under an Edelbrock 1406 carb with a lowered air filter housing and have no clearance issues in my 68. I had been running the 69 heads, but I installed heads from a 98 5.0L. Still no problems with hood clearance.
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After some checking around I found out that, 67 motor mounts (small block) are a one year only design.
Some what taller than, 68 up to (not sure what year) motor mounts, also there are 2 different lengths,
(68 up) coupes are lower,convertibles are higher. I'm hoping I got this right. THANKS FOR ALL HELP SO
FAR! mustang stu
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Stu, as long as you are talking about a regular RPM intake and Not an RPM Air-Gap. The Air Gap is too tall and you will run into clearance problems. I have a fiberglass Shelby hood and it still won't clear. I've been torn for the past year on what to do. I think I finally decided I'm pulling the 351 and putting a 5.0. I'm also working on a truck, so I figured the 351 will be better suited for the truck than a 5.0.
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I'd do some reading on dynamic compression ratio. Static ratio does not provide a useful number. You could have an 11:1 static engine with a camshaft that gets it down to 8.2:1 dynamic and it will run fine on pump premium. Opposite could be true, a 10:1 engine with a camshaft that puts it at 8.8:1 dynamic with iron heads will be no bueno on pump premium.
There are lots of dynamic ratio calculators out there where you just punch in your static, your cam card info and a little other info and presto… You get your dynamic ratio.
One is available free on the 71-73 mustang site.
thread-engine-and-compression-calculations
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Great advice Bentworker!
Ozblitz, how much too tall is the Air Gap? You could always take it to a machine shop and have them mill some off the top. You lose some plenum volume, but it clears the hood.
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