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1/01/2019 7:43 AM  #1


clutch fan

who's running clutch fans .  what type and brand.  and any thoughts on them vs flex fans.
i added ac to my 65 coupe with an 1980 302 i need to replace the water pump so i am going to go with
flow kooler high flow  water pump
mr gasket 180 degree high flow thermostat
2 row aluminum rad with 1" cores
stock shroud
just need to figure out what fan to use'

thanks everyone and have a happy new year!

 

1/01/2019 8:44 AM  #2


Re: clutch fan

I'm not a big fan of high volume/flow pumps.  You want the flow rate to be slow enough to allow the coolant to actually dissipate heat as it passes through the rad which is what the stock pump was designed for. I'm also not a "fan" of flex fans or electric fans.  Yes, the mechanical fan will steal a little power but unless you are going for max performance (racing) I doubt you'll notice.  And, in my experience, the stock steel fixed blade fan on a thermal clutch is more reliable than any of the after market "improvements".  JMO
I have a stock pump (89 Standard 5.0, not reverse but that won't matter), a six blade steel fan that was on our factory AC 66, thermal (not RPM) clutch, good shroud, a 20" two row aluminum rad (1" tubes), a 194 degree stat, and a coil in the lower hose.  It has gotten up to a measured 225 degrees while setting in traffic with the AC on in Las Vegas at 120 ambient.  Any other time, including hour long fourth of July parades, it never goes above 200.
For what it's worth, we used essentially this same setup on the Falcon Project with exactly the same results...can't make it get hot.

Good luck Mark, hope to meet you at a Bash some day.

BB
 

Last edited by Bullet Bob (1/01/2019 8:51 AM)


"you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
 

1/01/2019 9:39 AM  #3


Re: clutch fan

I have a mid 60's to mid 70's GM 18" fan and thermostatic clutch. Even without a shroud and less then ideal distance from the radiator it cools just fine. It's quiet but my only concern is it's a heavy weight on the pump and usually not recommended for over 4000 rpm. I'm giving thought to either a electric or fixed 5 blade with the 5 blade being first choice. The only reason I'm thinking of using a electric fan is I've have a brand new one sitting in my barn for years. A mechanical fan is going to work a lot better then a electric fan most of the time and you don't need to worry about your electric system such as your alternator being big enough


I'm not a complete idiot.....pieces are missing. Tom
 

1/01/2019 12:05 PM  #4


Re: clutch fan

The SPAL electric fan was one of the best modifications I've made to my car.  I built a double relay fan controller with a thermostatic switch.  With an old school three row copper/brass radiator its had no problem keeping the car cool, even in weather where the heat index was over 100 (at that temperature I might add it only ran about 5 degrees hotter than at any other time).  Its been on the car for two years and been 100% reliable.  I did a round trip from my house to Atlantic City back in September and it functioned flawlessly over that 150 mile excursion.

I get the simplicity of mechanical fans, I truly do, but every new vehicle has an electric fan now, and has for close on to two decades.  The reliability issues people may have had almost always stem from a cheap aftermarket electric fan.  A high quality fan, sized appropriately will have no trouble keeping your car cool, and being perfectly reliable. 

The big thing to be aware of with electric fans is there is no industry standard for how to measure fan flow.  Most companies do not test the fan against restriction, and this is why you'll see cheap fans rated at 3,000cfm.  Those numbers are pure BS, because the minute the fan has to operate against restriction the real numbers would be lucky to be half what they claim.  Last I checked a radiator is a restriction, so if you actually plan to use the fan you need to know real world numbers.  This led me to use the SPAL fan I did, because they realistically rate their fans.  Another dead giveaway is that it takes about 10 amps to move 1,000cfm, so if you see a fan rated at 3,000cfm that only draws 15 amps in operation you can be sure that's BS too.  My fan is rated a little shy of 3,000cfm, but draws over 30 amps at start up and mid 20s continuously, so I know its really moving the claimed air, even behind an actual radiator. 

Fixed fans rob a fair amount of HP, and are also on all the time.  I've found this results in over cooling in cold weather and the engine seemingly never wanting to get up to temperature.  Perpetually running an engine too cool results in accelerated engine wear.  This issue is why I went away from a fixed fan. 

Flex fans claim to skirt the HP drain by flattening out at higher speed to reduce parasitic drag.  IMO flex fans are ugly.  They don't look like they belong on a classic car, more like leftover aftermarket stuff from the '80s.  IMO they belong with over chromed out engine compartments and braided stainless hoses everywhere. 

Clutch fans can eliminate the HP drain, except when in operation, but clutch fans add another component that can fail (I've had two clutches fail over the years), so the idea that its more simple and therefore more reliable isn't really accurate in my experience. 

 

1/01/2019 12:14 PM  #5


Re: clutch fan

Is this where Mustang Steve jumps in? 😀


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
 

1/01/2019 4:27 PM  #6


Re: clutch fan

Nahh .... he's hanging out on Beemer boards, working out how to modify them.
I really like my 95 mustang e-fan, controlled by the ecu, pulls around 70A at start-up on high speed, so no surprise that it was introduced along with a 3G alternator.
It only fits because of the short water pump used on the 94-95.
If I was using v-belts, I woulda used a clutch and fan.

Last edited by 50vert (1/01/2019 4:41 PM)


"Those telephone poles were like a picket fence"
 

1/01/2019 4:43 PM  #7


Re: clutch fan

50vert wrote:

Nahh .... he's hanging out on Beemer boards, working out how to modify them.

Easiest way I've found is to sell it and buy something else.  They built some cool cars over the years, but the high performance ones command ridiculous prices, and trying to make the lower performance ones high performance costs four times as much as modifying an American car that was already fast to start. 
 

 

1/01/2019 5:34 PM  #8


Re: clutch fan

I use a Hayden fan clutch from Rockauto. It’s been reliable so far.


John  -- 67 Mustang Coupe 390 5 speed
 

1/01/2019 10:57 PM  #9


Re: clutch fan

I run a clutch fan and shroud.  See my recent tips/how-to post on it.


Cheap, Fast, Good:  Pick Any Two
 

1/02/2019 10:28 AM  #10


Re: clutch fan

I have two electric set ups that both work very well. One is like TKO mentioned with the Spal fan and a simple temp switch with relay so the fan gets full power. The second is a fan set up from a 95 Mustang GT which is two speed and I trigger it with an aftermarket control with thermocouple in the top of radiator tank near fill neck. I have override switches in both circuits bout have not used either. The one with the 95GT fan is on the car that I have the removable top on the radiator support which also has a large opening cut out. I think it is 29 inches.  

 

1/05/2019 2:17 PM  #11


Re: clutch fan

After years of off and on overheating problems on my 67 289 convert, mostly from low air flow at low speeds, I believe I've solved it once and for all. My final setup after trying all manner of electric fans and low temp thermostats and different radiators is as follows: Champion aluminum 2 row radiator, stock 20" wide. 30 % higher flow waterpump from Jegs, bonus it's aluminum and looks kinda cool. 17.25 " original equiptment type replacement fan for A/C cars along with a Hayden 2710 premium fan clutch. A stock fan shroud I had to modify slightly to fit the slightly larger fan. And finally a genuine Motorcraft 192 degree thermostat. Now for the first time since I got this car, it runs right at 195 no matter what my driving conditions. I've noticed my oil stays way cleaner now and my gas milage has stabilized at 15 to 17 mpg. I know that doesn't sound great, but it's better than it has been. Very happy with the performance now.


It's easier to add horsepower than it is to lose weight.
 

1/06/2019 8:06 AM  #12


Re: clutch fan

Hmmmm....sounds a lot like how mine and the Falcon Project are set up, with the same results.  Did you include a spring in the lower rad hose?  I'd think with that hi-flow pump you might want one.

BB


"you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
 

1/06/2019 12:45 PM  #13


Re: clutch fan

No, no spring in lower hose. All hoses were new 10 or 12 years ago, and are still very sturdy feeling. I don't think that high volume pump really flows that much more. The impeller is a tad bigger but it's only supposed to flow 30% better. I will keep an eye on it though. 


It's easier to add horsepower than it is to lose weight.
 

1/06/2019 2:15 PM  #14


Re: clutch fan

Checking for collapsing lower hose is easy to do. Get the engine up to temp to get the thermostat open, stand where you can see the lower hose, then have someone wing the throttle. The sudden increase in rpm spins the water pump faster which sucks more water from the radiator. If the lower hose is prone to collapse it will during this test. There is a reason the inlet of the water pump is called “the suction”. A trip to the parts store for an aftermarket stainless steel radiator hose internal spring will stop collapse.

 

1/06/2019 3:36 PM  #15


Re: clutch fan

I'll try that next May.


It's easier to add horsepower than it is to lose weight.
 

1/06/2019 5:22 PM  #16


Re: clutch fan

mark1965 wrote:

and any thoughts on them vs flex fans.

Flex fans are not a good option IMHO.  Engine masters did a shoot out (was free on youtube but now you have to subscribe to motor trend) where they did dyno pulls comparing no fan (as the control) a clutched fan, a light plastic fan, and a stock solid aluminum fan.  The flex fan did the worst, the lighter fans used marginally less HP BUT the clutched fan used the least HP.  


If it isn't broken...modify it anyway! http://www.DazeCars.com https://galaxieforum.boardhost.com
 

1/06/2019 5:28 PM  #17


 

1/06/2019 5:56 PM  #18


Re: clutch fan

here are some screenshots from the video








If it isn't broken...modify it anyway! http://www.DazeCars.com https://galaxieforum.boardhost.com
 

Board footera


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