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2/22/2019 7:58 PM  #1


Headers for 68

Hi,

This is my first post here.  I found this forum after ordering a lower bearing for my steering column.   My dad and I are almost finished with a 10 year restoration on my 68 and running into endless small problems one after another because of modifications.   Anyway, on to the issue.   

427w
AFR 205 heads
Borgeson Power Steering Box
Peak Torque at 4500rpm and Peak HP at 5500rpm.  Fairly low rpm street motor
4R70W

I purchased Doug's Headers Tri-Y D669Y-1 after a lot of research.  They fit well and just barely clear the steering box (but it and the column have to be removed to get them in).   After getting all this put back together we go to tighten the spark plugs and can't get a socket on them because the flanges are too low.   Does anyone have any ideas?  Right now I can only think of pulling the headers off and grinding the flanges, or order headers from FPA.   The FPAs are quite a bit more expensive but seem to be worth it from what I've read.  My main concern is I wanted Tri-Ys for the authentic Shelby look and it seems that design is more suited for lower rpm engines.  The FPAs are long tube headers, which I'm sure would be fine but aren't quite as authentic looking and may not be quite as good for the lower rpm engine I have.   What would you do in this case?  Any other ideas or special tools to get the plugs tightened?

Thanks

 

2/22/2019 10:19 PM  #2


Re: Headers for 68

Sounds like you're gonna be  removing & grinding this weekend!!
(Welcome to the best forum on the net BTW)
You DO realize these things are never really "done", don't you?!
Looks to me like the flange material is plenty thick enough for you to remove some of it to give enough clearance  to change/pull the plugs.( You would "think" the manufacturer. would trial fit its product and check plug accessability,huh? )
On second look.........if you grind out space for plug access...it will remove one of the bolt holes (or not!) It will be close.
Thats not even considering the hassle of moving the steering to get the header out!
WOW!!
Maybe mark each spot really well and THEN pull the headers and do the work. Maybe with a plasma cutter!?!
Some of the 4 tube headers fit without removing any more than maybe the Z-bar and/or the starter.
I'm a big fan of the "sound" 4-tube headers produce but.......hi-po manifolds are suppose to be wayyyy easier (for plug changing) ...don't cost much/or any HP at low speeds and  the Hi-Po 289 Mustangs had'em.(can't believe I would reccommend  NOT using headers)
Your call....I guess.
Let use know what happens.
Maybe some pictures?!
6sally6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

2/22/2019 10:21 PM  #3


Re: Headers for 68

I had the same problem on an old set of try-y headers.  I took a spark plug socket chucked it up in the lathe and turned it down so it would fit.  shouldn't take much for a machine shop to do the same, if you don't have a lathe.


If it isn't broken...modify it anyway! http://www.DazeCars.com https://galaxieforum.boardhost.com
 

2/23/2019 12:02 AM  #4


Re: Headers for 68

Welcome to the site. It’s a great group of folks.

I have the FPA’s in mine and I like them. Buying a second set of headers may not be the best answer.

Turnng down the socket is the most economical. Just don’t forget to take it with you on trips.

The better option while less expensive will be a great deal of work is to pull the motor and grind/test fit where access is easy. Spending some time now may save a lot of time and aggravation later.

I did a test fit of the headers and Borgeson box in my car before it went to the body shop. Had to rent a motor hoist to do it. Used a bare block and single head with the bell housing and trans installed. It was time well spent. Didn’t think about plugs and headers thoug, got lucky on that one.

Can’t tell you how many times I did something over on my car cause it didn’t work out like I wanted or it interfered with something else.


John  -- 67 Mustang Coupe 390 5 speed
 

2/23/2019 6:01 AM  #5


Re: Headers for 68

I agree with the others. I’d try a thinwall socket or having your spark plug socket turned down before I’d even consider removing the headers again.

 

2/23/2019 7:05 AM  #6


Re: Headers for 68

Yes, welcome to the best place on the web. 

And remember BB's rule:  Any modification begets at least six other modifications which will in turn, each beget six more modifications.....and on....and on.

As 6S6 noted, the Hi-PO manifolds work decent at lower rpm and are way easier to deal with.  Butt (TS&T), of course, the cool factor is not there.  Also, when I installed the Hi-Po's on my AFR 165 heads I discovered some fitment issues.  Don't know if the 205's will have the same problem but be advised.  My problem involved making the manifolds set flush against the head.  This created gasket crush problems and involved quite a bit of material removal on the manifolds and some on the heads.

REMEMBER BB'S RULE!!

BB


"you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
 

2/23/2019 7:14 AM  #7


Re: Headers for 68

Daze wrote:

I had the same problem on an old set of try-y headers.  I took a spark plug socket chucked it up in the lathe and turned it down so it would fit.  shouldn't take much for a machine shop to do the same, if you don't have a lathe.

I'm with Daze on this one.  I've made spark plug wrenches or sockets for a lot of my vehicles with headers over the years.  Its just part of having a modified vehicle. 

 

2/23/2019 8:06 AM  #8


Re: Headers for 68

As much as I hate using them, you might be able to fit a die grinder bit in between the ceramic and the flange and work around the ceramic. I would put in an old spark plug first. Might get enough to get the socket on.


67 Coupe, 5.0 EEC IV Fuel injected. T5, 3:70 rear
 

2/23/2019 6:56 PM  #9


Re: Headers for 68

Daze wrote:

I had the same problem on an old set of try-y headers.  I took a spark plug socket chucked it up in the lathe and turned it down so it would fit.  shouldn't take much for a machine shop to do the same, if you don't have a lathe.

This is what I would do!


Gary Zilik - Pine Junction, Colorado - 67 Coupe, 289-4V, T5
 

2/23/2019 8:47 PM  #10


Re: Headers for 68

Just remembered....I have a spark plug socket with a hex head made into the top of it. m(pretty common, I think)...Anywho that should solve your prob unless the header is just made worng?!!
6sal6
PS..at least it gives you a bump-to-the-top!


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

2/23/2019 11:20 PM  #11


Re: Headers for 68

Maybe one of the thin wall mag wheel sockets .... maybe.


"Those telephone poles were like a picket fence"
 

2/24/2019 6:04 AM  #12


Re: Headers for 68

Thanks for the welcome and all the ideas.   I like the socket turning down idea, but my dad said we will still have the problem of the flange melting the boot.   It looks like we will be grinding soon.  I've already pulled the tops off.  We're going to see if we can do it without removing them from the car.

     Thread Starter
 

2/24/2019 8:00 AM  #13


Re: Headers for 68

There are sleeves that can be used over the boots to solve that issue.  I had the problem on a '74 Nova I owned where the previous power had used headers meant for straight plug heads on an engine that had angled plugs.  Some of the sleeves rested right on the headers all the time (often in dents in the tubes the genius must have made to clear the plugs), and I never melted a single boot.  I think the sleeves were made by DEI.  But these would also work:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/the-14260?seid=srese1&cm_mmc=pla-google-_-shopping-_-srese1-_-thermo-tec&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIk7D9v8PU4AIVz1uGCh1DZgFqEAQYAiABEgIVq_D_BwE

Last edited by TKOPerformance (2/24/2019 3:08 PM)

 

2/24/2019 12:49 PM  #14


Re: Headers for 68

I use the thermo sleeves TKO listed for my plugs and the speedo cable.


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
 

Board footera


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