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  •  » Had intentions of coming to the bash and this problem

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    6/23/2019 4:57 PM  #1

    Steve69
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    From: Madison Wisconsin
    Registered: 4/01/2013
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    Had intentions of coming to the bash and this problem

    Came up.   I didn't think It would make a 6 hour drive around the big lake.   Then I thought of driving the KIA and BB and I could start the first ever KIA car club...LOL  I worked on my Mustang most of the day yesterday trying to figure out what's going on.  Sorry didn't make it!   What I did is take off the serpentine belt to make sure the new ac compressor wasn't the issue or anything up front.  I installed a new mini starter.  I pulled the new mini starter and tested to make sure the Bendix gear was pulling back after it was started and crank turned back to run.  Seemed to do what its suppose to do.  The noise sure seems to be coming from the Starter area. The same noise with the old mini starter.  This last winter I installed new gauges, vintage ac and dapper halo headlamps. I dont think that would effect the starter.  One time while running the noise just stopped making me think its not internal in the engine.   Thanks for the help!
    Steve69



     

    Last edited by Steve69 (6/23/2019 5:08 PM)

     

    6/23/2019 5:38 PM  #2

    GPatrick
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    Registered: 4/01/2013
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    Re: Had intentions of coming to the bash and this problem

    You may want to put some putty or clay on the nose of the starter gear and install it.  Pull it back out and see how much clearance you have between the starter gear and the flywheel.  Odd combinations of starters, block plates, and flywheels can end up with the starter too close to the flywheel.  You'll have to search to find a spec for clearance but if it is too close, you can pick up a .100" starter spacer/shim at many auto supply stores.  Didn't see if you have an auto or manual trans.  Sometimes on auto transmissions the access plate on the bottom of the bell housing can get dented into the flywheel.  And, you may actually be able to see the starter gear if you pull the plate.

    Did it do this before the A/C install?  If it starter only after, you may have some weird backfeed into the solenoid.  Also, if you jumpered the main starter to the solenoid (depending on your mini starter) you may be in a situation where you get voltage to the solenoid from the starter preventing it from pulling back all the way.  That is probably not the issue but I've heard of this happening.  This could also spontaneously stop as you mentioned in your post.  When I installed a mini starter on my truck I kept the starter and solenoid circuits separate.

     

    6/23/2019 8:09 PM  #3

    Steve69
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    From: Madison Wisconsin
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    Re: Had intentions of coming to the bash and this problem

    GPatrick wrote:

    You may want to put some putty or clay on the nose of the starter gear and install it.  Pull it back out and see how much clearance you have between the starter gear and the flywheel.  Odd combinations of starters, block plates, and flywheels can end up with the starter too close to the flywheel.  You'll have to search to find a spec for clearance but if it is too close, you can pick up a .100" starter spacer/shim at many auto supply stores.  Didn't see if you have an auto or manual trans.  Sometimes on auto transmissions the access plate on the bottom of the bell housing can get dented into the flywheel.  And, you may actually be able to see the starter gear if you pull the plate.

    Did it do this before the A/C install?  If it starter only after, you may have some weird backfeed into the solenoid.  Also, if you jumpered the main starter to the solenoid (depending on your mini starter) you may be in a situation where you get voltage to the solenoid from the starter preventing it from pulling back all the way.  That is probably not the issue but I've heard of this happening.  This could also spontaneously stop as you mentioned in your post.  When I installed a mini starter on my truck I kept the starter and solenoid circuits separate.

        I have a manual transmission.  The mini starter looks exactly the same as old starter.  Never had this problem prior to installing the AC and gauges.  I did go through the wiring and mark it and determine what is what.  I was thinking the voltage feedback too.  But when I tested the starter and it was on run there was nothing. If there was feedback Id think the starter might be running or doing something on run. Thanks for the info!
     

    Last edited by Steve69 (6/23/2019 8:10 PM)

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    6/25/2019 5:53 AM  #4

    Steve69
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    From: Madison Wisconsin
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    Re: Had intentions of coming to the bash and this problem

    The top starter is the old one.  Looks like the gear is stuck out. I was having the same problem as the new one where the gear was staying engaged and making noise.   The new starter nose looks longer and the gear is wore down on the end. Looks like I might have the wrong starter.  Is one a manual and other Automatic?  I have a 4 speed 164 bellhousing.  Thanks

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    6/25/2019 9:27 PM  #5

    6sally6
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    From: Surfside Beach,SC
    Registered: 4/02/2013
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    Re: Had intentions of coming to the bash and this problem

    Yep!.......................(sometimes)
    Manual IS different when using the old factory style starters.
    Can you put the old starter back in and see if the noise gets better(or goes away?!)
    Also..... hook power up the the starter before you put it in and see of the start gear is popping out/in all the way. Be careful those starter have a GANG of torque so don't be holding it when you put power to it!
    Gotta be a starter/flywheel issue though.
    6s6

    Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
     

    6/26/2019 1:53 PM  #6

    Steve69
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    Re: Had intentions of coming to the bash and this problem

    Thanks 6sally6 and Gpatrick!   I believe the starter is wrong.  Need one like the top.   If you see the gear its extended out and I think that's why the old one was making noise too.

    Thanks
    Steve69

     

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    6/28/2019 8:26 AM  #7

    marsfl1
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    From: Sarasota, Fl.
    Registered: 8/27/2013
    Posts: 74

    Re: Had intentions of coming to the bash and this problem

    Take the starter out and push start the car
     

    IF IT'S TO LOUD YOUR TO OLD
     

    6/28/2019 10:37 AM  #8

    Steve69
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    From: Madison Wisconsin
    Registered: 4/01/2013
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    Re: Had intentions of coming to the bash and this problem

    marsfl1 wrote:

    Take the starter out and push start the car
     

       I thought about doing that.  Couldn't round up enough help though.  I ordered a new starter like the one on
    top and problem solved.   The below one was too long and when the gear came back it was still riding on the flywheel gear.  The one on top I believe the return spring that brings the gear back was shot.

    Thanks for the help.

    Steve69
     

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    7/01/2019 11:35 AM  #9

    BobE
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    From: White Plains, NY
    Registered: 4/04/2013
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    Re: Had intentions of coming to the bash and this problem

    Just an FYI.  I put a 5-speed Tremec in my 65 and used a "manual" starter, it wouldn't engage the flywheel (5-speed).  I ended up w/the "automatic" starter which I believe is either 3/8" or 3/4" longer.

    65 Fastback, 351W, 5-speed, 4 wheel discs, 9" rear,  R&C Front End.
     

    7/01/2019 2:32 PM  #10

    TKOPerformance
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    From: Newark, DE
    Registered: 12/15/2014
    Posts: 7,522

    Re: Had intentions of coming to the bash and this problem

    Factory starter from the C4 setup worked fine with the T5, but I did end up needing to shim it forward a bit.  I simply made a couple shims from some sheet stock as no one had any in stock at the local auto part stores.

     

     

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