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Holley now has an EFI fuel tank module that replaces the fuel sender and pickup under the tank. It even comes with a modern fuel "sock/bag" and sending unit with a float calibrated to the stock fuel gauge.
The pump is internally regulated at 58psi so there is no return line needed; unlike their other "swap" pump that goes on top of the tank which does and requires a fuel pressure regulator. Link below...
The question then... Can I adapt the original steel fuel line already on the car?
I know I'd need to change it at the front where the original mechanical pump "was", but shouldn't the original steel line be able to handle 58 psi?
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The factory line, whether 5/16" or 3/8" is sufficiently sized for EFI and the steel line, provided its in good shape, should have no issue handling the pressure. I would actually pressure test it though, because lines tend to rot out from the inside out due to moisture in the fuel system. Finding a leak with air now is greatly preferable to finding one with fuel later. At 58psi a pin hole is a problem that gets out of hand quickly.
All the rubber hose in the system must be changed out for hose rated for fuel injection. Any clamps must also be changed to worn drive style which are compatible with fuel injection hose. The old fuel system hose will fail when used for EFI, and the old spring style clamps won't be able to hold the hose on at those pressures. Generic worm drive clamps will abrade the jacket of the hose and could cause a failure. Fuel injection clamps are available at most auto parts stores, and I've bought them from Amazon quite reasonably as well.
However, the rub is the returnless EFI systems aren't a great idea. OEMs used them in the late '90s and early '00s and have all gone back to regulated return systems. The problem without a return is that they are setting system pressure at the tank; not the rail. Rather, they are trying to set pressure at the tank, and the reason is that the pressure drop in the system is at the rail where the injectors in high demand situations cause a pressure drop. The tank mounted regulator can't "see" that. Fuel both lubricates and cools the injectors, so if they are starved, even for a short period, they will eventually fail. OEMs went back to rail regulated return systems because they were getting killed having to replace injectors under warranty.
Now, on a car like a classic Mustang that doesn't see much use this may take decades to happen. At 58psi it seems Holley is hedging their bet by increasing system pressure in an attempt to ensure the injectors stay fed (most injectors are flow rated at 43-45psi), and if they increase pulsewidth a bit in high demand application to account for the loss of pressure it may be fine. If you go this route I'd want to know what they use for injectors (e.g. are they commonly available). This way if you have issues in the future, when Holley will almost certainly tell you they aren't going to replace the injectors for free and likely will want a king's ransom for new ones, you will have the ability to just buy new ones on the open market for a reasonable sum.
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I seen this kit too by Holley. I have a fitech fuel commander system and was thinking of switching to this. I think Ill wait awhile and see how the consumers like them before switching over. Steve69
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There are pros and cons to the returnless systems so you will have to reach your own conclusion. This article describes one of the issues - regulator response
The other potential problems are increase heat of the fuel from the engine since it is not constantly recirculating. I have also heard but have no direct experience that you will increase the temperature of the fuel in the tank because the pump is heating the gas and dumping a lot of that warmed fuel right back in the tank.
Regardless of your choice, you will need to install a 10 micron fuel filter in the system. You may be able to do that near the tank. However, even with the filter you should flush the system before connecting it to the Sniper so that you don't end up with residual dirt in what used to be a suction line now operating under pressure. You don't want to clog the injectors on the first start. I used Earl's vapor guard hose and fittings (you can't mix and match with other fitting types at the hose ends) throughout the install on my Truck. I ended up using a return system. I am running it all with hoses but will install hard lines on some portions when I do an engine upgrade later this year.
With the Earl's vapor guard hose, it would be very easy to plumb a return line and go with a return style pump. The vapor guard does not have the typical gas fume problem that most other flex hoses have. You do have to use the EFI variant of the hose for the pressures. If the internal regulator in the returnless pump fails, you are pulling the pump out. If the regulator in the Sniper fails it is a somewhat easier repair. Based on my research I installed a gauge at the inlet of the sniper to monitor fuel pressure. A reduction or increase in pressure is not necessarily trapped by the Sniper and can be the source of poor running.
Based on my experience and the recommendation of others I would recommend a two step install. If you have a working ignition system, install the Sniper with a known good ignition so that you are only working on the fuel side to get the Sniper running and starting to tune. After you have confidence that the Sniper is handling fuel properly, install a Hyperspark or Dual Sync distributor and let the Sniper take over timing control. I did this on my truck and now that I have both ignition and fuel being controlled it is a night a day difference from what I started with.
Once you get your system installed drop me a message and I'll help you through a few quirks in the setup that I found. Make sure you get the special cable to allow a connection to a laptop but a lot of tuning can be done with the SD card and the Sniper software. The system self-tunes to a certain extent but there is room for further optimization that is pretty easy to do.
You can also drop me a message if you need any help before you purchase. After my initial purchase I found EFISystemPro.com. They are an official re-seller and their prices are the same as any other supplier. But, they offer support that you may not find elsewhere. I bought my Sniper from Speedway, but bought my distributor from EFIsystempro for their support.
Good luck!
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I was planning on doing it in multiple steps also. The same as you described. The EFI part first, then the Hyperfire ignition stuff later.
The other option was using the FiTech Fuel Command Center with the Holley Sniper TB. use the stock pump and line to get the fuel to the sump in the engine bay and let the FiTech pressure it to the injectors. This would cost less than the Holley setup in the tank and about the same as the Holley top mount swap with the return line.
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They may have solved some problems but the FCC seems to have the most negative reviews. This is in part due to internally recirculating fuel and heating it up. I think that it adds a layer of complexity that violates the KISS principle. Take a look at Tanks Inc. They have some options that look good for your application and the reviews are pretty positive.
One thing I forgot to mention that you need to add to your growing list. The Sniper doesn't like older alternators. The older units tend to produce more electrical noise into the system and the Sniper and other FI units don't like noise. They recommend using a 3G alternator - higher output amps (especially at idle) to support the fuel injection and much lower noise. You don't need the 130 amp version. The 90-ish amp unit should be fine if you aren't running a fan. The Sniper is sensitive to voltage and if you drop much below 12 after startup it can get "lost". Here is a link to a related article that discusses alternators.
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GPatrick wrote:
The Sniper doesn't like older alternators. The older units tend to produce more electrical noise into the system and the Sniper and other FI units don't like noise.
I have a Hitachi 100A single wire Alt on their now. Dumped the original one years ago.
I was going to go with this tank anyway... I could still go with the return line and build a false floor. I just didn't want to mess with that. Regarding KISS, I was thinking the Holley sender swap was the simplest, if not the best option, but it sounds like it's a bit too simple and could cause more problems than it's worth. Need to think on this.
Last edited by 92vanguard (6/24/2019 5:58 PM)
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I don't have any experience with the returnless system and it may work as well as advertised. I searched this AM and couldn't really find any more info. There is a guy here locally that intends to use the returnless on his 66 but he is months away from that. If I find any more info I'll let you know. Some people are running a Corvette return style filter regulator. It is set at 58 and you can position in back where you don't have as much of a problem running a return line. You could get the return style pump with the Corvette regulator and run a single line up front. Here are two links. Apparently they work pretty well but not if you are planning thousands of horsepower! Several have AN fittings/adapters. This gives you the opportunity to go full return in the future without changing out a pump, etc.
[url] ,41791.html[/url]
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92vanguard wrote:
I was planning on doing it in multiple steps also. The same as you described. The EFI part first, then the Hyperfire ignition stuff later.
The other option was using the FiTech Fuel Command Center with the Holley Sniper TB. use the stock pump and line to get the fuel to the sump in the engine bay and let the FiTech pressure it to the injectors. This would cost less than the Holley setup in the tank and about the same as the Holley top mount swap with the return line.
I have a FiTech FI with a Command Center. It has a vent that goes to the ground. I did not think that was safe, so I ran the vent back to the gas tank.
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I just found this from Spectra Premium in Canada. It's a new 22gallon fuel tank with a drain plug and preinstalled fuel pump with return line. It has a built in filter and 75-10 Ohm fuel level sender. $306.06 on Amazon! So it's less than just the pump systems from the other guys and it comes with a new tank with drain plug?
Link to just the pump...
I've sent a tech email to find out the specs on the pump but this looks like the perfect KISS and low dollar swap.
Thoughts?
Last edited by 92vanguard (6/24/2019 8:12 PM)
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I just pulled the float CCM and drilled out the inlet of my fuel commander this last weekend. Got a new pump from Fitech because mine quit. Works pretty well now.
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lowercasesteve wrote:
I have a FiTech FI with a Command Center. It has a vent that goes to the ground. I did not think that was safe, so I ran the vent back to the gas tank.
I read a review on Amazon about the Command Center where the owner said it was pumping fuel out onto the ground, so he ran a return line, negating the point of not having to mess with the original tank... So that's a no go for me.
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You can run the return line to the fuel filler neck for the Fitech, no fuel tank mods. Pull the fuel filler neck and modify it on the bench.
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Hornman wrote:
You can run the return line to the fuel filler neck for the Fitech, no fuel tank mods. Pull the fuel filler neck and modify it on the bench.
I've heard if you don't drop the return all the way to the bottom of the tank, as opposed to just popping it into the filler neck, it can cause problems. Especially as the fuel level drops.
Yes/No?
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A lot of people have done it the way Hornman suggests. I can't remember ever reading of an issue with it.
That being said, all OEM systems return the fuel to the bottom of the tank, so that would be my preferred location given the choice.
I'm betting that "vent" line on the FCC is really a "blow down line". Its there to "vent" overpressure if something goes wrong, which means in that event it dumps fuel. A vent should only allow vapor or gas (the state of matter, not gasoline) to escape. Sounds like a dangerous Mickey Mouse setup to me...
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92vanguard wrote:
Hornman wrote:
You can run the return line to the fuel filler neck for the Fitech, no fuel tank mods. Pull the fuel filler neck and modify it on the bench.
I've heard if you don't drop the return all the way to the bottom of the tank, as opposed to just popping it into the filler neck, it can cause problems. Especially as the fuel level drops.
Yes/No?
Remember that this is a vent line, not a continuous flow “return” line. All return lines should be routed to the bottom of the tank. Also, good design practice calls for pointing the vent line inside the filler neck toward the tank to encourage any liquid vented to travel to the tank. Based on the number of fuel venting incidents on Fitech systems I have heard about, it would be a good idea to install an in line liquid flow switch with a warning light in the cabin to detect fuel “venting”.
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