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  •  » Please educate me on roller cams.

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    7/05/2019 2:55 PM  #1

    RV6
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    From: Pine Junction, CO
    Registered: 3/01/2016
    Posts: 1,250

    Please educate me on roller cams.

    Many moons ago my daily driver was an 1986 Mustang GT convertible. At 200,000 miles I pulled the engine and install a Ford crate engine ($1200) because it would not start. Turns out the starting issue was the flat film ignition module, but it needed a clutch anyway so I tossed in the crate engine since I had it.

    I saved the 86 engine and it still sits in my garage exactly the same as the day I pulled it. I'm thinking it is about time to do something with it. 

    It's a roller cam. When I pull it apart can I reused the lifters on a different cam? Should I just toss the lifters and start fresh?

    What should I build? My car is a 67 coupe with T5 and 3.55 gears in the rear. A nice sporty street engine to replace my sporty 289 is what I'm going for. 

    BTW, I sold the 86 for $500 to the kid down the block. It had 400,000 miles on the clock and needed a new top. I had replaced the top once and swore I would never do that again. This was the 2nd time I swore I would never install another convertible top. The first one was on my 64 Corvair Spyder. 

    Gary Zilik - Pine Junction, Colorado - 67 Coupe, 289-4V, T5
     

    7/05/2019 3:45 PM  #2

    TKOPerformance
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    From: Newark, DE
    Registered: 12/15/2014
    Posts: 7,522

    Re: Please educate me on roller cams.

    Can you reuse the lifters?  In theory sure.  Would I ever?  Hell no.  Why?  200k miles.  They don't wear like conventional lifters but they do eventually wear out.  If you're going to rebuild it anyway, and you can already use the cheap factory style lifters its false economy not to replace them.  A new set of Ford Racing lifters is like $119. 

    My thoughts on the build?  331 stroker with AFR heads, but that also happens to be what I just built for my '89...

     

    7/05/2019 6:27 PM  #3

    Bullet Bob
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    From: Montrose, Colorado
    Registered: 4/01/2013
    Posts: 4,889

    Re: Please educate me on roller cams.

    With a roller cam you can put new lifters on the old cam assuming there's nothing obviously hosed on the cam lobes.  New lifters?  Well, I'm of mixed feelings here.  I agree that it sounds dumb to put old parts in a fresh engine butt (TS&T) maybe it ain't totally stupid.

    When I built the 89 5.0 for the Heap, I used a core that I'm sure had a couple of hundred grand on it.  But it ran silent with no lifter noise at all.  The cam was perfect and all the lifters looked perfect with no worn rollers or signs of side wear.  But, I had a brand new set of Ford lifters so when I put the engine together with a used 92 HO cam, I went with the new lifters.....and the damned thing always had lifter noise.  And still does although it isn't obvious with the roller rockers I added...but............

    When we built the Explorer 5.0 for the Falcon project we reused the lifters on the original stock cam.  Engine is silent.  Not sure how many miles were on that engine but certainly way over a hundred K.

    Was the engine quiet when you pulled it?  Did it exhibit any signs of collapsing lifters....cold clicking until the OP came up?  Pays your money and takes your chances. 

    BB
     

    "you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
     

    7/05/2019 6:51 PM  #4

    GPatrick
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    Registered: 4/01/2013
    Posts: 1,117

    Re: Please educate me on roller cams.

    I have a set of factory rollers from a 99 that had about 150,000.  Ford doesn't make their own rollers anymore from what I understand so there is no guarantee regarding quality, unfortunately, on new Ford lifters.  The piston and head combo on the 86 are a high swirl design unique to the 86 and are not a good base to spend any money on - especially if they need to be rebuilt.  I may be able to get you a set of GT40 cast heads that will need to be freshened but that might be cheaper than AFR's.  I'll find out tomorrow after a trip to the U-pull.

    If you need any crank work or a bore, by they time you get pistons and crank machining a stroker kit is not a bad option.  I may have an explorer block that only needs a hone as well after tomorrow and the whole combination might be cheaper and easier to freshen and you could sell the 86 engine as is.  I'll send you a message after we get back.  If the block only needs a hone and the crank is good, you can probably even use the stock pistons with better heads.
     

     

    7/06/2019 1:51 AM  #5

    TKOPerformance
    Hyper FYIFORD ADDICT

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    From: Newark, DE
    Registered: 12/15/2014
    Posts: 7,522

    Re: Please educate me on roller cams.

    Its unlikely that Ford ever made their own lifters.  From what I've read there are really only about three companies in the world that actually manufacture lifters.  When you buy lifters from Ford, Comp, Crane, etc. you are buying one of the three in a different box.  If you check out different lifters on Summit's website you'll see that many of them are identical in the pictures, and that's why. 

    I actually used a set of Comp lifters in my 331, not sure who actually made them, but they were the best set I could find at a fairly reasonable price ($235).  I bought a set of Ford and Summit lifters before and was totally unimpressed with the quality (packaging fell apart in transit, lifters arrived damaged, etc.).

    Almost all heads are cheaper than AFRs, but none better.  That's why I went with them. 

     

    7/06/2019 9:30 AM  #6

    MS
    Forum Originator

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    From: Canyon Lake, Texas
    Registered: 1/24/2013
    Posts: 12,294

    Re: Please educate me on roller cams.

    The 86 had unique heads which work just fine in a driver, as you already know. There are better ones, but you did drive those for a long time and never had a problem.

    The pistons in 1986 had no valve reliefs so you will replace those if using anything other than the stock cam.

    Old lifters? On the 5.0 in my 56 F100, I reused the original lifters. Time will tell if that was a good choice or not. I put brand new lifters in my 427 and one lasted 14,000 miles before it broke, but they are under way more stress at 7,000 rpm than the ones in my truck that might possibly see 4,000 rpm every now and then with a milder cam profile.  A new set is $120.  You decide. The risk of an old one failing? Or the risk of a new one failing?  I’d say consider how the engine will be used and go from there.

    Warley’s engine was built from exact same 1986 engine. It has a cam perfect for the job. Built to 331 stroker but with standard bore pistons.

    Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
     

    7/06/2019 7:34 PM  #7

    6sally6
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    From: Surfside Beach,SC
    Registered: 4/02/2013
    Posts: 6,872

    Re: Please educate me on roller cams.

    I used old lifters in my first rebuild with an X-303 Ford Motorsport roller cam. Cleaned 'em.....inspected 'em...oiled 'em.  They lasted for a trip to Dallas MSBB ???  Made it home butt it was mak'in funny noises.  One roller wheel was totally gone......couple more had just halft the wheel ground off...couple more  were chewed up pretty good.!
    I called the cam company and we "talked".  He ask me..."how many miles were on those lifters?".. I told him I didn't know BUTT...."can't I re-use roller lifters?"  He said sure butt........everything has a 'life'...things just wear out....like roller lifters!!
    He re-ground the cam and(for free) and I bought some new lifters from him. Works great!

    6sally6

    PS Do you REALLY want my opinion on camshafts?!
    Great thing (as you already know) about rollers are the initial break-in phase. Piece of cake

    Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
     

     

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