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8/06/2019 12:20 PM  #1


What difference will. . . .

. . . I see going from a 180 "T" stat going to  195?
The 331has been running the 180 with an actual temperature of 175 since the engine was installed. The car seems to like the way it is right now.  With the current set up it has stayed cool under all situations.
  I have read many times that SBF's like temps that are higher so I thought that there is nothing to lose trying out the swap.
 Wadda ya think?


Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
 

8/06/2019 3:14 PM  #2


Re: What difference will. . . .

ABDFI


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

8/06/2019 3:27 PM  #3


Re: What difference will. . . .

They are rare, but I would actually try the elusive 181 deg t-stat

 

8/06/2019 4:04 PM  #4


Re: What difference will. . . .

If temperature is easily maintained there is benefit to going to a 195.  Engine wear will be greatly reduced for one thing.  Running 175 is too cold.  It sounds hard to believe, but there have been numerous studies done, and increasing operating temperature that 20 degrees probably reduces engine wear by about 25%.

Then there's the benefit of a hotter chamber, namely, better fuel atomization.  This should allow a slightly leaner mixture while making more power. 

 

8/06/2019 4:23 PM  #5


Re: What difference will. . . .

MS wrote:

ABDFI

What is this supposed to mean??????


Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
     Thread Starter
 

8/06/2019 4:38 PM  #6


Re: What difference will. . . .

Need to update...expand the acronym list Steve.

My guess..”Already Been Done Forget It”?

 

8/06/2019 7:02 PM  #7


Re: What difference will. . . .

Ain't broke, don't fix it.


"Those telephone poles were like a picket fence"
 

8/06/2019 8:30 PM  #8


Re: What difference will. . . .

I do know it aint broke, it has been like this for over 20,000 miles.
 I was wondering if anyone had empirical statistics on increased operating temperatures.
 Ford did increase the small block t/stats ratings from 1st to later generations. Why?
 I need a small project now that my new knees are getting broken in

 


Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
     Thread Starter
 

8/06/2019 8:33 PM  #9


Re: What difference will. . . .

As long as there's enough heat for your oil, plugs and exhaust check out good, I wouldn't mess with it if it's working. (My track record proves otherwise) But I'm pretty lazy.


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
 

8/06/2019 9:11 PM  #10


Re: What difference will. . . .

Ford designed the SBF engine to run at 195 degrees normal operating temperature. They must have had reason to do so otherwise they'd have put in a 180 degree or a 165 degree or whatever. I've always run the 195 in my Ford engines, as Ford recommended. JMHO.
Of course, we could always replay the MS vs Mr. Tim discussion about thermostats and radiators and engine cooling,  eh MS?


68 coupe - 351W, 4R70W, 9" 3.25 -- 65 convertible - 289 4v, C4, 8" 3.00
 

8/07/2019 12:25 AM  #11


Re: What difference will. . . .

50vert wrote:

Ain't broke, don't fix it.

 That was my interpretation of ABDFI.
Personally, I prefer to run hotter, around 195-200
Anecdotal only ... back when I was running a solid cam and adjusting rockers, the rocker area seemed cleaner with higher temps.


"Those telephone poles were like a picket fence"
 

8/07/2019 4:32 AM  #12


Re: What difference will. . . .

Why did Ford change?  For exactly the reasons I stated.  It increased engine life and probably most importantly for then at the time it decreased emissions through a more efficient burn.

We discussed this on another thread.  DC had dyno tests from running a hotter t-stat that showed an increase in power. 

If you want to see the effect on wear here's the link I posted on that thread:

http://www.carnut.com/ramblin/cool3.html

 

8/07/2019 9:42 AM  #13


Re: What difference will. . . .

Rudi wrote:

I do know it aint broke, it has been like this for over 20,000 miles.
 I was wondering if anyone had empirical statistics on increased operating temperatures.
 Ford did increase the small block t/stats ratings from 1st to later generations. Why?
 I need a small project now that my new knees are getting broken in

 

Oh shoot I thought you were kidding, my apologies!!! I agree with Steve I'd leave it, I do remember engine wear concerns when people used to try to run 160 deg t-stats. Personally I'd leave it as is.
 

 

8/10/2019 8:06 AM  #14


Re: What difference will. . . .

For a close to stock standard 289, what is the best temperature thermostat?
I wonder now if mine is too low...
It barely gets to a 1/4 way on the gauge these days (since the flush and radiator service)


1964-1/2 D Code Coupe - 289 V8, 4 Speed Toploader, 3.00 ratio rear, Autolite 4100 Carb, 15" tires, Pertronix ignition
 

8/10/2019 9:39 AM  #15


Re: What difference will. . . .

I've always run a 180 in mine.  It really just depends on the operating temperature.  With my cooling system my target temperature is 195 degrees.  The 180 t-stat allows me to achieve that in almost all weather.  If its really, really hot outside it may creep up to 205-210.  In very cold weather it may only hit 180-185.  This has thus proven to give me the best all around cooling system performance for my setup. 

Frankly, I put about zero confidence in the stock gauge.  I would get a real gauge on it and see where its really running.  The factory gauges in these cars are basically glorified idiot lights. 

 

8/10/2019 9:43 AM  #16


Re: What difference will. . . .

TKO is correct. Wear will be reduced. Small block ford engines do show extra wear on # 1, 4, 5 and 8 cylinders since they run cooler, not having an adjoining cylinder on both sides.

If you can run 195 without problems, the car will be better off.

My answer previously was based on all the recent overheating questions that have been showing up. Ain’t broke... I have been getting more conservative with messing with stuff if it is working well already.  Not the best answer for those who are still energetic.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

8/11/2019 4:54 AM  #17


Re: What difference will. . . .

After searching through through the garage, I found the receipt for the thermostat I fitted and it was indeed a 160 degree thermostat. I just ordered a 191 degree thermostat and will be fitting that as soon as I get it.
Thanks for the heads up on this guys.

Last edited by Stevo (8/11/2019 4:55 AM)


1964-1/2 D Code Coupe - 289 V8, 4 Speed Toploader, 3.00 ratio rear, Autolite 4100 Carb, 15" tires, Pertronix ignition
 

8/11/2019 5:07 AM  #18


Re: What difference will. . . .

I'm not sure what you can use as a baseline for 'improvement, or not' type of measurement; maybe gas mileage,
plug readings, I don't know but whatever you use, you can temporily block off the radiator to get the temp
to 195 and then use your measurements to see the difference.   Less messy than changing the thermostat, and
maybe changing back again.

 

8/17/2019 4:42 AM  #19


Re: What difference will. . . .

gjz30075 wrote:

I'm not sure what you can use as a baseline for 'improvement, or not' type of measurement; maybe gas mileage,
plug readings, I don't know but whatever you use, you can temporily block off the radiator to get the temp
to 195 and then use your measurements to see the difference.   Less messy than changing the thermostat, and
maybe changing back again.

 I just trusted Steve on this and swapped out the thermostat.  Ugh, it's a pain in the butt to do, but I did it.
I got coolant all over the fan belt and last time that happened, there was a weird noise which I originally thought was clutch throw out bearing. But a friend said that fanbelts don't like coolant and I replaced the belt. Problem was fixed. Hopefully it won't happen again this time.


1964-1/2 D Code Coupe - 289 V8, 4 Speed Toploader, 3.00 ratio rear, Autolite 4100 Carb, 15" tires, Pertronix ignition
 

8/22/2019 5:23 AM  #20


Re: What difference will. . . .

Since fitting the 191deg thermostat, the engine definitely warms up a lot quicker. I am noticing the temperature gauge sitting halfway now, even late into the evening when it is not very hot. I hope this still is ok, as I still remember getting some heartburn with watching the temp gauge read 3/4.


1964-1/2 D Code Coupe - 289 V8, 4 Speed Toploader, 3.00 ratio rear, Autolite 4100 Carb, 15" tires, Pertronix ignition
 

2/27/2021 5:49 PM  #21


Re: What difference will. . . .

If it ain't broke, It doesn't have enough Features
195 T-stat

Tubo


If it ain't broke, I haven't modified it Yet
 

2/27/2021 7:38 PM  #22


Re: What difference will. . . .

Tubo wrote:

If it ain't broke, It doesn't have enough Features
195 T-stat

Tubo

TUBO! Where you been hiding? What up brother?


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
 

2/27/2021 8:30 PM  #23


Re: What difference will. . . .

Original Mustang thermostats were 180, if anybody cares


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

2/27/2021 9:50 PM  #24


Re: What difference will. . . .

Hmm... don't remember ever hearing that Steve. What temp T-stat are you using?


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
 

2/28/2021 9:03 AM  #25


Re: What difference will. . . .

I still use 180 in the 2 clevelands. I did try a 195 between them and they run fine until it's shut down time. Diesel diesel, knock knock, hiccup, reverse rotation, severe gas odor, then the black smoke out the 72 ram air.

 

Board footera


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