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10/18/2019 2:55 PM  #1


Trying to verify FE in my Shelby

C80E-9425-C intake manifold   8L16 date code
Can’t see heads or block codes yet, but exhaust manifold on passenger side is really long and neither side uses the top bolts.
Where does dipstick normally exist on a 428?
Air cleaner looks legit.  Has a Edelbrock 1405 carb on it.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

10/18/2019 3:20 PM  #2


Re: Trying to verify FE in my Shelby

You should be able to sell that 600 cfm Eddy to one of us SBF guys. Way too small for FE.
6sally6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

10/18/2019 3:48 PM  #3


Re: Trying to verify FE in my Shelby

I appears the date code of the car precedes the date of the intake.  That tells me it is not original to the car, but maybe there is a CJ in there.  Just waiting for an MS rebuild.

You really think 600cfm is too small for a car that is not likely to get raced anywhere?


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
     Thread Starter
 

10/18/2019 4:05 PM  #4


Re: Trying to verify FE in my Shelby

I can't believe I'm sayin this on this forum ... do you have a Marti report?
The engine assembly date is a hand stamped number on a small machined  pad on the drivers side front of the engine just below where the cylinder head mounts to the block.
As John has pointed out, under the oil filter pad will be the date code when the engine was cast
A partial vin was a federal requirement from Jan 68.


"Those telephone poles were like a picket fence"
 

10/18/2019 4:10 PM  #5


Re: Trying to verify FE in my Shelby

Wellll...it will run with a one barrel carb butt not very well.
You may have issues getting it tuned right with such a restriction in the carb department.  Big bore/stroke suck a LOTTA air when they rotate. Also......the way you like to drive......75+mph on road trips.....Its gonna be like trying-to-puke-with-a-rope-around-your-neck.
I bet at least a 700 cfm carb (minimum) would serve you better.  (plenty of guys out there with a 5.0 engine and 750 cfm carb stuck on it.....wondering why it stinks at idle and sluggish performance)
6sal6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

10/18/2019 5:43 PM  #6


Re: Trying to verify FE in my Shelby

At 75mph that torquer engine will be turning about 2300 rpm, just barely out of the idle circuit.  Probably get 23 mpg.

 

10/18/2019 8:02 PM  #7


Re: Trying to verify FE in my Shelby

MS wrote:

You really think 600cfm is too small for a car that is not likely to get raced anywhere?

1969 428 scj came with 735 cfm Holley.


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
 

10/18/2019 10:14 PM  #8


Re: Trying to verify FE in my Shelby

rpm wrote:

MS wrote:

You really think 600cfm is too small for a car that is not likely to get raced anywhere?

1969 428 scj came with 735 cfm Holley.

So did a 68 428 cj KR.   C8OF-9510-AB for automatic,  Holley list 4168  
If your end goal is a 100% restoration, you may as well start with something you've gotta replace anyway. 

PS: Can't believe I just suggested concours to MS ....... but it still applies. 
 

Last edited by 50vert (10/19/2019 12:35 AM)


"Those telephone poles were like a picket fence"
 

10/18/2019 11:30 PM  #9


Re: Trying to verify FE in my Shelby

The Shelby registry should be able to give you a build date on then car and some history. I think the casting number on the intake is right, but the build is for a 69 model.

The hole for the  dipstick will be on the driver side of the block near the oil filter mount. It should have a clip that is secured to cylinder 5 exhaust manifold bolt. Those HP robbing log manifolds won’t use a top bolt. And those valve covers make it difficult to see a difference in elevation from the out side ports to the centers.

I’m not sure if that car came with a 600 Holley or a 735. The 735’s are hard to beat according to things I’ve read. I had my 750 vacuum secondary modified to be like those 600’s and 735’s with the dual metering plates.


John  -- 67 Mustang Coupe 390 5 speed
 

10/19/2019 6:09 AM  #10


Re: Trying to verify FE in my Shelby

Pretty sure the carb should be a 735 Holley that was a holdover from the 390PI engine. 

How many exhaust manifold bolts does it have?  There should be 16 per side for the 428, vs. 8 for a standard FE.  BUT, the 390GT heads also had 16 bolts, so its not definitive.  There were some low riser 427 heads that used 14 as well, and may have been used on early production 428CJs.

The most common head casting number is C8OE-6090-N.  CJs had bigger valves than the standard 428, but that's hard to check. 

The heads should have 4 threader holes for the Thermactor (one per exhaust port) just below the valve cover sealing rail. 

The problem with the FEs is they can be hard to pin down.  They used the same casting number parts and changed the machining for different applications quite a lot.  I can't say for 100% certain that you can verify exactly what the engine is without some disassembly.  Even if its a legit 428CJ it may not be the correct one for that vehicle.  Some had partial VINs stamped into them, others didn't.  Typically without provenance all you can say is the casting numbers and date codes make the engine "correct". 

 

10/19/2019 9:00 AM  #11


Re: Trying to verify FE in my Shelby

I do have a Marti Report. It says May 26 build date.
I do not care if the car is concours. I plan to restomod it per my usual procedure, but will probably keep the original disc/drum brakes so I can run the original 15” wheels.  I really like the way the car rides.
To me, a non-original engine is a plus. That just means I can do what I want. But still leave it pretty much stock. I do have a 670 Holley carb on the shelf. Probably makes sense to just use it. But the Edelbrock drives just fine.
The engine has alot of blow-by out the oil fill hole.

First priority is to fix the POS wiring job. Someone installed a full new factory harness but did not get things right.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
     Thread Starter
 

10/19/2019 10:14 AM  #12


Re: Trying to verify FE in my Shelby

Good on you for not getting into the analities ( is that a real word) of concours, those guys rarely drive their cars. One guy I know won’t put his convert top down caus it might wrinkle
I’m with you on the stock “look” outwardly, not attracting too much attention till a closer examination yields a “ holy crap, would ya look at those modifications” response.
You can go disk-disk with those wheels, love them, same as mine. The Lincoln MKVIII rear disk conversion I did fits great and works super. I might even have the bracket templates around in case you are interested.

Do you have any build info on the AOD that is in the car?, a stock one may not live long behind those big cubes. As well as some other Baumman recommended tranny mods, a hardened direct drive input shaft is An absolute must.

Last edited by Rudi (10/19/2019 10:31 AM)


Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
 

10/20/2019 6:43 PM  #13


Re: Trying to verify FE in my Shelby




It appears there are brass plugs in the heads above the exhaust ports. Is this only on 428cj heads?  Also note manifold bolt positions. Is this definitive of any particular head?


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
     Thread Starter
 

10/20/2019 7:14 PM  #14


Re: Trying to verify FE in my Shelby

Yes, those are thermactor plugs. I plugged a set of heads on my 390 years ago.

And I agree with Rudi on doing the AOD mods if you plan on doing any hard shifts. A better idea would be saving the money on the AOD and getting another 4R70W.

Last edited by rpm (10/20/2019 7:47 PM)


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
 

10/20/2019 9:30 PM  #15


Re: Trying to verify FE in my Shelby

As already mentioned, heads should have C8OE-6090-N  cast in between the two middle spark plugs. Maybe try a borescope camera to read it.
Engine blow-by, I noticed that the booster line appears to run forward, probably to one of the original PCV points. The original PCV setup was strange on the BB intake.
http://mansfieldmustang.com/04-37.jpg

Last edited by 50vert (10/20/2019 9:38 PM)


"Those telephone poles were like a picket fence"
 

10/21/2019 4:51 AM  #16


Re: Trying to verify FE in my Shelby

Yeah, unfortunately as with most things FE, it must have the Thermactor holes to be a 428CJ, but having Thermactor holes doesn't mean its definitely a 428CJ.  Those FEs will drive you nuts with this stuff.  I had a 390 years ago that had a lot of parts with casting numbers also used on the 428s, and I was so sure I somehow found a truck that had its 390 swapped for a 428 over the years.  Sadly it was not the case.  Triple checking and some measuring confirmed it was just a 390. 

 

10/21/2019 7:40 AM  #17


Re: Trying to verify FE in my Shelby

I can't see what I want to see from your pics. Here is the best picture I have to show the 390 GT heads 14 bolt exhaust pattern used on the shock tower cars. The CJ heads have 16 bolts with that top row straight across. .

IMG_9782-A

On the plus side, looks like you do have a dipstick for the oil in the proper location and whoever put the motor together used aftermarket head bolts


John  -- 67 Mustang Coupe 390 5 speed
 

10/21/2019 8:39 AM  #18


Re: Trying to verify FE in my Shelby

There are also some early 428CJ heads with casting number C8AE-6090-J (all presumably used prior to January of '68) that were also used on 427 low riser engines that have 8, 14, or 16 exhaust manifold bolts per side.  The 428CJ was a mid year offering and Ford initially did what Ford did best; they went to the parts bin. 

The much more common C8OE-6090-N heads were used thereafter. 

There are also some very rare C8WE-6090-A heads that were used with 8 exhaust manifold bolts per side.  These were factory race parts with stock sized ports raised 0.200".  They would go through NHRA tech inspection with flying colors because the ports were the right size.  I'm betting they are worth a good deal of coin nowadays. 

The quest continues!  Gotta love those FEs!

 

10/21/2019 9:57 PM  #19


Re: Trying to verify FE in my Shelby

JUST SLIDE A COYOTE SUPERCHARGED DOWN IN THERE LATER OR ONE OF THOSE ENGINES OR AS 6SALLY6 SAYS MOTORS LIKE YOU HAVE IN YOUR 66 IN THAT BAD BOY.


Its really me....I fixed my caps lock .
 

10/22/2019 4:23 AM  #20


Re: Trying to verify FE in my Shelby

Perish the thought, gotta keep it FE!  480 aluminum blocked stroker with 8 stack EFI.  Time to call Barry Rabotnick...
 

 

10/22/2019 8:20 AM  #21


Re: Trying to verify FE in my Shelby

Hmmmmm....


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
     Thread Starter
 

10/22/2019 12:35 PM  #22


Re: Trying to verify FE in my Shelby

I can see a -N on the head numbers but cannot see the rest without unbolting half the car.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
     Thread Starter
 

10/22/2019 3:58 PM  #23


Re: Trying to verify FE in my Shelby

Sounds like you have the correct heads.
The vin stamping should be on a pad in a similar location as a SB.
All the KRs were built at Metuchen before going to A O Smith. Some Metuchen cars had the number stamped on the back of the driverside head.


"Those telephone poles were like a picket fence"
 

10/22/2019 8:08 PM  #24


Re: Trying to verify FE in my Shelby

MS wrote:

I can see a -N on the head numbers but cannot see the rest without unbolting half the car.

Just wait till you need to change the plugs on the center cylinders!!

I bought a set of those valve covers because I always wanted them on my car. Then, I got an up close view and saw how much real estate they consumed. I can change the plugs in about an hour.


John  -- 67 Mustang Coupe 390 5 speed
 

10/22/2019 11:41 PM  #25


Re: Trying to verify FE in my Shelby

Bolted to Floor wrote:

MS wrote:

I can see a -N on the head numbers but cannot see the rest without unbolting half the car.

Just wait till you need to change the plugs on the center cylinders!!

I bought a set of those valve covers because I always wanted them on my car. Then, I got an up close view and saw how much real estate they consumed. I can change the plugs in about an hour.

Hah ... welcome to the world of FEs.  I curse mine every time I work on it. The Hooker Super Comps chew up what little space is there.
When finished, it will be a near twin to Bolted's beast. I think I secretly like it more than the 5.0 vert. 
 


"Those telephone poles were like a picket fence"
 

Board footera


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