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9/01/2013 1:13 AM  #1


66 fast back with efi 5.0 fuel pump question

I havent been on here lately due to my car being in the body shop. since getting it back we have put the motor and trans back in and began wiring. I have an after market eec harness that plugs into all sensors and everything on the engine. my question is the what to do with the red fuel pump wire that goes back to the inline pump. should I add a relay also. and where should I connect the red wire and should I also come from the ignition switch aswell to run the pump properly. any info or diagrams would be helpful. thanks

 

9/01/2013 7:12 AM  #2


Re: 66 fast back with efi 5.0 fuel pump question

Considering that you are using an aftermarket harness, I would have to take a guess on how they are using the "red" wire.  I would expect them to include directions for things like whether or not you would need a relay.  If I were building an aftermarket harness, I would include all the relays needed and the wire would hook up dirctly to your fuel pump.  Even the factory Ford Mustang harness used a relay up front and the wires that ran to the back hooked up directly to the fuel pump.  If they have not supplied a ground wire, make sure that you hook up the ground very well.

I know I have not answered your question, but hopefully have given you some insight on how it typically done.

On a related note, good luck with the inline fuel pump.  We tried a variety of inline pumps, mounted as low as was safe, and always experienced vapor lock when the summer temps got up into the 95 degree range.....which was every day in Texas.  We eventually converted the fuel tanks to accept the 5.0 Mustang style pump assemblies and never had any more problems.  Just something to keep in the back of your head in case you ever experience the same problem.

 

9/01/2013 10:00 AM  #3


Re: 66 fast back with efi 5.0 fuel pump question

66fastback wrote:

Considering that you are using an aftermarket harness, I would have to take a guess on how they are using the "red" wire.  I would expect them to include directions for things like whether or not you would need a relay.  If I were building an aftermarket harness, I would include all the relays needed and the wire would hook up dirctly to your fuel pump.  Even the factory Ford Mustang harness used a relay up front and the wires that ran to the back hooked up directly to the fuel pump.  If they have not supplied a ground wire, make sure that you hook up the ground very well.

I know I have not answered your question, but hopefully have given you some insight on how it typically done.

On a related note, good luck with the inline fuel pump.  We tried a variety of inline pumps, mounted as low as was safe, and always experienced vapor lock when the summer temps got up into the 95 degree range.....which was every day in Texas.  We eventually converted the fuel tanks to accept the 5.0 Mustang style pump assemblies and never had any more problems.  Just something to keep in the back of your head in case you ever experience the same problem.

 Can you elaborate on exactly what you did to install the pump inside the tank?


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

9/01/2013 10:46 AM  #4


Re: 66 fast back with efi 5.0 fuel pump question

When I was running the LP pump to holding tank to HP pump setup,(both inline pumps)  I never experienced vapor lock.  Now that I've switched to an intank pump, I don't know if I'm experiencing vapor lock or air in the fuel line, but it is erratic and irritating.  I'm about ready to go back to an inline pump.

 

9/01/2013 12:13 PM  #5


Re: 66 fast back with efi 5.0 fuel pump question

MS....it has been a lot of years since we converted our cars (amazing how time flies).  I would say about 15-20 years ago we converted our cars to efi.  We took the tanks to have the bungs brazed to the tops of the tanks.  The part I don't really recall is just how much modification was required after that to make the 5.0 Mustang pump assemblies fit.

I am pretty certain that I had to shorten mine to fit the standard 16 gallon tank.  I think the one we put in my dad's car was more of a straight swap.....he had put the 20 gallon tank from the 69 models into his 67.  The taller tank was just about the right height, if I remember correctly. 

I do recall not being happy with the seal on the bungs that were welded in.   I could almost always smell a little gas.  I think the best option these days is to get a new tank from Tanksinc....they have them with the fittings welded on for the sending unit and the pump assembly on top of the tank, eliminating the sending unit in the front that is below the fuel line (who ever came up with that idea?).  Anyway, the tanksinc tank is also baffled for better fuel control around the pickup tube.
http://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=345/category_id=145/home_id=-1/mode=prod/prd345.htm

James W--go with whatever works for you.  We tried, and burned out several inline pumps of various manufacture origin.  We did not try to use a LP pump and holding tank, but we did mount the pumps on brackets that held them down around the bottom of the tank.  When we got tired of the problems, we went to the in-tank solution and both drove our cars for close to 100k miles each that way.

 

9/01/2013 8:26 PM  #6


Re: 66 fast back with efi 5.0 fuel pump question

To the OP, what wire harness are you using. If you're using the RJM harness (used to be fordfuelinjection.com and now oldinjection.com, with the store being rjminjectiontech.com), the relay is already built into the harness. You can just connect this wire to the hot lead of your pump.

As for fuel delivery, I can only speak for my experience in the KISS method (although not cheapest). I am using the Ron Morris Performance EFI fuel system kit, which uses a single inline pump. I don't typically run the tank down to near empty levels (and I'm using a larger '69 tank), but I've never experienced even a hint of fuel starvation. On warm days after driving it awhile, it will tend to develop a bit of vacuum in the tank and you can hear a slight hiss when opening the cap (FWIW, I've even heard that on newer cars). If it concerns me now, I'll loosen the cap while I'm driving. Eventually, I will tap the filler neck, place a vent line through a charcoal cannister. I've seen a writeup on the web and it looks pretty slick.

(edit) The above listed tank does look pretty slick; however, it appears that you will have to run your fuel lines through the trunk, if that bothers you.

Last edited by Jeff in GA (9/01/2013 8:29 PM)


1965 Mustang 2+2 EFI
 

9/01/2013 8:52 PM  #7


Re: 66 fast back with efi 5.0 fuel pump question

Jeff in GA wrote:

On warm days after driving it awhile, it will tend to develop a bit of vacuum in the tank and you can hear a slight hiss when opening the cap

As for in line pumps:  We've put over 16k on our 66 with a Walbro pump mounted inline and the fuel return going  into the tank drain port.  Car has been to Dallas in Sept and Kalispell in July with a side trip to the top of Pike's Peak.  On the trip to Kalispell we ran it down to about 1.5 gallons and never had a hicup.  I have a flat fuel sock adpted to the pickup on a repop sender which, I think, really helps with the fuel slosh problem.  The pump/filter is mounted just below the weld seam of the tank.



As for the "vacuum" on the tank.  Are you sure it vacuum?  Our brand new 20 gal tank swelled up like a basketball by the time we got home from Kalispell due to the rising fuel temp.  The tank cap will ven in but not out.  I'm planning a vent line like the old Falcons had that made a couple of laps around the upper right quarter then went down through the trunk extension.

BB

Last edited by Bullet Bob (9/01/2013 8:52 PM)


"you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
 

9/01/2013 9:20 PM  #8


Re: 66 fast back with efi 5.0 fuel pump question

Now that you mention it, no, I'm not sure it is vacuum. I'll have to check. If I can remember back to my thermodynamics class all those years ago, P1/T1 = P2/T2 (geek alert), so as the temperature increases (as I assume it does being pumped through a hot engine bay and back, then the pressure would as well. I'll check it out.


1965 Mustang 2+2 EFI
 

9/02/2013 5:43 PM  #9


Re: 66 fast back with efi 5.0 fuel pump question

I decided to move out on fixing my fuel system, so I ordered a 1/2qt holding tank from BC Broncos, a carter low pressure pump and an E2000 high pressure pump.  Should all be here in time for next weekend.

In the meantime I thought I'd get a jump on dissassembly so I started emptying the system.  hmmmm can't get anything to pump out... so I take off the drain plug out trickles about a half a pint of gas.  

now I understand why it was cutting out.... 

On the good side, when I had the tank empty, I went ahead and pulled the filler tube and installed a vent.

 

9/02/2013 6:54 PM  #10


Re: 66 fast back with efi 5.0 fuel pump question

Bullet Bob wrote:

Jeff in GA wrote:

On warm days after driving it awhile, it will tend to develop a bit of vacuum in the tank and you can hear a slight hiss when opening the cap

As for in line pumps:  We've put over 16k on our 66 with a Walbro pump mounted inline and the fuel return going  into the tank drain port.  Car has been to Dallas in Sept and Kalispell in July with a side trip to the top of Pike's Peak.  On the trip to Kalispell we ran it down to about 1.5 gallons and never had a hicup.  I have a flat fuel sock adpted to the pickup on a repop sender which, I think, really helps with the fuel slosh problem.  The pump/filter is mounted just below the weld seam of the tank.



As for the "vacuum" on the tank.  Are you sure it vacuum?  Our brand new 20 gal tank swelled up like a basketball by the time we got home from Kalispell due to the rising fuel temp.  The tank cap will ven in but not out.  I'm planning a vent line like the old Falcons had that made a couple of laps around the upper right quarter then went down through the trunk extension.

BB

 Bullet, you got a part number or application on that flat pickup?  Looks like a darned good idea.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

9/03/2013 9:20 AM  #11


Re: 66 fast back with efi 5.0 fuel pump question

Fuel Sock:  FS-130 from CarQuest.  I think the number is the same everywhere.  It's a pretty common unit.

I had  to do  a little lathe project to adapt it to the stock pick-up tube.  Mine is "tuned" so that the sock lays right on the bottom of the tank sump.  These things are pretty cool as they tend to  "skin over"  when the  fuel  sloshes away from them for a few seconds and don't let the  pump suck air.  I discovered the phenomenon when I stumbled  across some fine mesh fuel pick-up made for ATVs.  I think that was on a web site that sells the Walbro pump.  The ATV pick-up was too big for the Mustang sender hole...as I recall.

BB


"you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
 

9/03/2013 9:25 AM  #12


Re: 66 fast back with efi 5.0 fuel pump question

And another thing that I considered would be to use one of these socks on some sort of weight that is on a length of green-strip hose so it can fall toward the down hill side of the tank.  Butt (TS&T) I think for a normal car mine is a better setup.

BB


"you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
 

Board footera


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