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1/12/2020 11:02 PM  #1


Happy-days-are-here-again?!!!!!


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

1/13/2020 8:12 AM  #2


Re: Happy-days-are-here-again?!!!!!

Oh so sorry my friend, but these are by no means happy days.  If we were going to get true 95 octane gasoline, yes, it would be marvelous.  Unfortunately this requires some reading between the lines.  The octane isn't going to come from better fuel; its going to come from adding more ethanol to it.  We have enough trouble with E10.  E15 is disastrous when run in older vehicles.  Ethanol is touted as a panacea by people who know nothing about engines or chemistry.  Why?

Simple, its not as toxic as tetraethyl lead or MTBE.  There aren't the concerns about environmental pollution from fuel storage.  Then there's the corn lobby who keeps lining politicians pockets to convince them we need more food in our fuel.

Here's the financial problem, ethanol production doesn't work economically; it only works because the government subsidizes it.  Translation: we pay less at the pump, but more in taxes.  I've also seen several studies that clearly show that making a gallon of ethanol start to finish requires the use of a gallon of gasoline.  Wow, that's a real winner isn't it?  A gallon of fuel for a gallon of liquor.  More on why that's dumb in a minute. 

Then there's the chemical problem.  Ethanol burns cleaner than gasoline, and it is almost entirely resistant to detonation, BUT its a far worse fuel because it contains much less chemical energy than gasoline.  About 20% less to be precise, which is why fuel economy seemed to stagnate, or even decline once we all started being forced to run E10.  Ethanol generates far less heat, as its combustion temperature is much lower than gasoline.  So in too great a concentration a vehicle's radiator becomes too big and over cools, meaning no heat in the winter, etc.  At low enough ambient temperature you can't even get the stuff to ignite.  Ever see the guys squirt something into the bug catcher to get a dragster to fire up?  Its gasoline, and they use it because methanol, like ethanol, doesn't want to start burning once outside temps drop. 

Finally, ethanol is hygroscopic.  It absorbs water from the environment.  That leads to corrosion in the fuel system, and at times water contamination.  This isn't a huge deal on a vehicle driven frequently, but a collector vehicle that sits for sometimes months at a time is prone to damage from it.  I've seen it literally ruin carbs.  A lot of small engine, snowmobile, and outboard engine manufacturers have disclaimers that using fuel containing ethanol in their products will void the warranty. 

I've already seen the inroads in some states.  I was in MD during the holidays and noticed four grades of gasoline at the pump.  Curious I read the fine print, and yep, the new one had 15% ethanol in it.  My own idiot state has been in talks for up to 20% for several years now.  A lot of us rail against it, but in the end what's going to happen if they enact it?  I'm not moving, and even if I was willing to how long does that buy me?  This is something that's happening whether we want it to or not.  I don't know how we turn it back; we probably can't.  If you wanted to get all conspiracy theory on it you could argue that they actually know EXACTLY what they're doing and this if forced obsolescence for older vehicles they deem unfit for a cleaner, greener future. 

 

1/13/2020 10:02 AM  #3


Re: Happy-days-are-here-again?!!!!!

My feelings always was, there's no reason why a slower burning lead and ethanol free fuel can't burn cleaner. Farming to produce the corn and transport to be made into ethanol and transported again for blending after refining would be very costly at the pump. It's made a lot of very rich people with the BS cover up.
 

 

1/13/2020 11:15 AM  #4


Re: Happy-days-are-here-again?!!!!!

I have never been a fan of the Food For Fuel program.


Gary Zilik - Pine Junction, Colorado - 67 Coupe, 289-4V, T5
 

1/13/2020 12:28 PM  #5


Re: Happy-days-are-here-again?!!!!!

“WILL WORK FOR FUEL”

 

1/13/2020 12:55 PM  #6


Re: Happy-days-are-here-again?!!!!!

I prefer corn juice free fuel anytime and glad I have it available near me.

 

1/13/2020 1:13 PM  #7


Re: Happy-days-are-here-again?!!!!!

I live in Iowa and you'd think the corn growers would want ethanol everywhere, but no, almost all gas stations give you a choice. The bad is it costs an extra .50¢ per gallon. So far, the EPA hasn't increased the amount of ethanol required, which upsets the ethanol maker's plans. BTW, ethanol doesn't need corn so much anymore; there are companies using 'stover' to make it.

 

1/13/2020 5:39 PM  #8


Re: Happy-days-are-here-again?!!!!!

The ideal way to create it would be destructive distillation, but there's a host off issues with it.  At least it would allow us to recycle organic waste like grass clippings, tree branches, etc.  I looked into all this round about 2004 when fuel costs first exceeded $3/gallon around here.  Possibly they are figuring out ways to make it work, but the problems seemed pretty drastic from my research, most notably that you need a lot of heat to start the process and the fuel in didn't justify the fuel out.  Kind of like making it from corn, but worse.  Though, if you had access to in essence free heat from say an industrial incinerator run off trash gas, or a nuke plant, you could possibly create a work around with a lot less input energy. 
 

 

1/13/2020 7:20 PM  #9


Re: Happy-days-are-here-again?!!!!!

In case you have every wondered why you get worse gas milage with gasohol: gasoline has about 114,000 BTU per gallon and ethanol has about 76,000 BTU per proof gallon, only about 2/3 as much energy. When the current president took office he suggested that we could cut back on the corn based ethanol in gasoline. Predictably, all the member of Congress from the corn growing states threw a fit and the proposal went nowhere. Yet another political solution to a technical problem. Ethanol from corn was not the best technical or economic solution to tailpipe emissions, but Federal Government subsidies for fuel ethanol generated some votes for George W. Bush and now that extra income for the corn growers is an entitlement. Is this a great country or what? I haven’t done a full analysis of the entire trickle down of the Federal subsidy through the four or five times the money is supposed to circulate, but my guess is that ultimately the Federal Government gets back all that subsidy plus some through all the taxes through all those cycles. 

Someday I will tell you the whole story of how we got ethanol in our gasoline as an emissions reduction device and why it’s California’s fault.

 

 

1/15/2020 5:50 AM  #10


Re: Happy-days-are-here-again?!!!!!

Hornman wrote:

and why it’s California’s fault.

 

Seems most things are.
 

 

1/15/2020 3:21 PM  #11


Re: Happy-days-are-here-again?!!!!!

May be at the BASH?!  Good incentive to come!
6s6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
     Thread Starter
 

1/15/2020 4:49 PM  #12


Re: Happy-days-are-here-again?!!!!!

6sally6 wrote:

May be at the BASH?! Good incentive to come!
6s6

While using ethanol for the purpose God intended!

 

Board footera


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