| ||
Visit MustangSteve's web site to view some of my work and find details for: FYIFORD Contributors' PICTURES - Power Brake Retrofit Kits for 65-66 Stangs - Classic Mustang FAQ's by MustangSteve - How to wire in a Duraspark Ignition - Mustang Ride Height Pictures and Descriptions - Steel Bushings to fit Granada Spindles to Mustang Tie Rods - Visit my EBAY store MustangSteve Performance - How to Install Granada Disc Brakes MustangSteve's Disc Brake Swap Page - FYIFORD Acronyms for guide to all the acronyms used on this page - FYIFORD Important information and upcoming events |
Offline
I think I’m leaning towards 347 even more so... yes I’ve heard and read the rod ratio arguments with the issue that they don’t “last as long”!!
Issue comes with when I ask, how you define “last as long” .. 331 will run more miles than a 347 no doubt it’s simple physics .. but how many more?
Remember this isn’t 1/4 mile at a time ;) ..
Will a 347 last me a 100k+ miles? And the block will be Unseable after that? I’m ok with that!
Is 331 going to last me 150k miles and will have block left to rebuild .. may be... but do I care to rebuild the block in 20 years?
5k miles a year average!
So, I think the longetivity argument is valid but not applicable to my use .
Oil burning has been mostly cured by most available kits out there!
Anyway. I’ll keep y’all updated. Glad i haven’t bought anything , and doing this all on paper .. this is free ;D
Offline
Neither will leave a rebuildable block in the end. With a fresh bore at 0.030" or even 0.020" over the next rebuild would take it past 0.040", and a stock 5.0 block rarely has enough meat to leave acceptable cylinder wall thickness beyond 0.040", at least without sonic checking it first. Honestly, I don't worry about reusing the block. 5.0s are plentiful and will remain so. How many million of them did Ford build? The price will go up in time, but the price of EVERYTHING goes up in time.
When building a high performance engine longevity can be hard to pin down. A street engine is supposed to last 100k. With a carb that's about what you can reasonably expect from one. EFI engines last longer and longer as the systems get better. Its simply because the fuel metering has gotten more and more precise and they don't wash the cylinder walls down as much, which is the major contributor to wear in a carbed engine.
A mild performance build should also be able to last 100k. The farther you get from mild the less its going to last. Almost any stroker is simply not going to last as long as a stock engine. You're changing the loading on the thrust side of the cylinder walls. In a short deck engine like a SBF the issue is exacerbated. In something like a SBC you can change the rod length and get back close to stock dynamics, but only because you have more deck height.
Consider this, a 347 is the absolute ragged edge of a 5.0 block's displacement. Beyond that you have to go to a taller deck block like a 351, or an aftermarket block. Generally what happens when you push something right up to the ragged edge?
Then it gets back to matching things. There's no magic in the bottom end at this level. You want power? Its done with heads, cam, intake, carb, and exhaust. Running the displacement on the ragged edge and having nothing else even close to it makes no sense. If the power's that important run a cam that gets the same power in a 331. BUT power's not that important. What I'm seeing here is compromise in an area where compromise isn't in your best interest and going all out in an area where its not going to make enough of a difference to justify the downside, and why? Because the stroker kits all cost the same, but the better top end parts don't.
I'm all for trying to build a better mousetrap, but truth be told this engine is shaping up to be perfect for a truck build. I've had truck engines is cars before, and I must say, I wasn't a fan. Long story short, this has little to nothing to do with which engine would wear out first. Its got everything to do with which engine will be free reving and fun to drive.
Last edited by TKOPerformance (1/13/2020 6:45 PM)
Offline
5K per year X 20 years = 100,000 miles (there......."I did the math" fer ye!)
20 years from now you will be how old?!....Will there even be gasoline powered vehicles?....Will you even be around in 20 years?.....
Build a 347......with the best heads you can afford......with the most cam you're comfy with....drive it to the Bash a few times.
You change the oil regular(detergent oil).......use unleaded fuel (not much choice there)....it will last until I'M dead (and some of the other guyz)....Just do it as soon as you can....If you wait until you can comfortably afford it, it prolly won't happen!!
6sal6
Offline
There will 1000% (not a typo) still be gasoline powered vehicles in 20 years.
I'll still be here in 20 years, least I hope I will...
And the brilliance is in your last line 6sally6. Really marinate on that part Gaba.
Offline
Don’t worry I’m no saint ... hahaha I’m already going past my allowed limits and ready to ask forgiveness hahahahaha
I am building a 347 for sure!!!
Heads are up in the air cause I may ... MAY.. have a lead on half priced aluminum heads (Edelbrock heads )... but not sure .
Have talked to the machine shop already! And deciding on piston size right now .. , I am Very close to driving the block to the machine shop.... like may be this week ;)
Will keep y’all updated
Last edited by Gaba (1/15/2020 7:51 AM)
Offline
Once begging forgiveness is the plan its just a question of degrees
I remember a wise man once said, "if you're already out past curfew might as well stay out. Why take a 10:30 beating? Might as well make it a 4am beating. In fact, they'll probably be so glad you're alive that you won't even get beat at all."
Offline
Hahahahaha hahahahaha
Offline
well ... here is it.. I think I have a decision on the engine build .. After all this.. good has come of our conversations here!
347 build with 11cc pistons
Kit is being bought from the machine shop I am using : Wayne Calvert's shop in Denton
Heads ..... drumroll please................................................ FOUND a smoking deal on 1 brand new Edelbrock 60399 170cc intake head ... basically traded it for my GT40's ..
Adding one more head brand new will bring the cost for me to (machined GT40)+150.. so for 150 more, I was gonna have aluminum heads.. SOLD! :D
These heads have a 60cc combustion chamber giving me a compression of 9.78:1 at 0.008" clearance.. and 9.98:1 with 0 deck clearance. .
Cam is picked as :
Howards 221275-12 270/278 217-225 (1400-5600 rpm) 0.528" / 0.533" LSA 112
Wayne Calvert wanted to discuss the cam with me still .. so I will take his suggestion and compare with this one.
Called three or 4 cam companies, all their recommedations came right around this one I picked, and the one above would start performing too late (2500 rpm or so )
Anyway.. so this is turning out to be a fun build. The block will be clearanced by the machine shop but I will assemble the whole thing myself..
Fun starts SOON!
Last edited by Gaba (1/16/2020 3:23 PM)
Offline
That cam is close to mine in my 351. Edelbrock - 218-224 .513. It pulls from 1200 and is all done just over 5,000. That is fine for my uses and still gets acceptable mileage. Idles at 900rpm with a little burble. I get looks all the time.
Offline
6sally6 what do you mean by saying rotate the piston so it faces the rear of the engine. What will that do.
Offline
Factory Ford pistons for some reason had the pin offset from center. Installing them 180 degrees from "correct" reduces rod angularity and wear on the thrust side of the cylinder walls. This in turn reduces friction and improves power.
Offline
6sally6 what do you mean by saying rotate the piston so it faces the rear of the engine. What will that do.
Offline
TKOPerformance wrote:
Factory Ford pistons for some reason had the pin offset from center. Installing them 180 degrees from "correct" reduces rod angularity and wear on the thrust side of the cylinder walls. This in turn reduces friction and improves power.
That’s only factory pistons not after market... right?
Offline
Pistons have that offset of the rod built in to avoid piston slap. Go with stock position and it will live longer and quieter.
Online!
The stroker pistons will have a specific orientation. Since you are not using stock pistons, install as the manufacturer intended. Let us know when the shop picks out pistons for you. Piston prices don't seem to be one of the consumer item that is tracked for inflation. My truck pistons were a small fortune but they sure looked cool. Hope to never see them again, though.
And nice score on the heads!
Last edited by GPatrick (1/18/2020 6:05 PM)
Offline
GPatrick wrote:
The stroker pistons will have a specific orientation. Since you are not using stock pistons, install as the manufacturer intended. Let us know when the shop picks out pistons for you. Piston prices don't seem to be one of the consumer item that is tracked for inflation. My truck pistons were a small fortune but they sure looked cool. Hope to never see them again, though.
And nice score on the heads!
Hypereutectic 11cc pistons are what are being picked ..
If shop is open tomorrow I’ll be taking the block there !
Offline
THe Block is at the shop! and we are a go on the 347 build! I have the summit cart ready with all I need to build this engine..
Sadly , while clearing my garae , selling stuff, I seem to have give away my roller lifters and dog bones ... now I am gonna have to source those from somewhere.
Anyone have some extra hydraulic roller lifters and dog bones laying around that are in good shape?
Let me know Thanks
Offline
duhhhhhhhhhh!!! Nice go'in!..........
Sounds ohhh so familiar!! When doing mine(many moonz ago) 'the garage monster' ate that big old bolt that holds the balance
on the front of the crank. I moved a few years later and it STILL never showed up!?!
My advice..........buy new roller lifters. I found out the hard way that the roller wheels DO eventually wear out and become 'consumed' by the camshaft!
Dog bones!!......I bey MS/DC/TKO/...or some of the engine builder guys have a set for sale(or less!)
6sal6
Offline
Gaba wrote:
Sadly , while clearing my garae , selling stuff, I seem to have give away my roller lifters and dog bones ...
now I am gonna have to source those from somewhere.
Anyone have some extra hydraulic roller lifters and dog bones laying around that are in good shape?
Let me knowThanks
I've got a set of lifters and bones from an '86 5.0 you can have. Four of the lifters look like this one, but they pass the fingernail test. The other 12 are pristine. PM your address if you want them.
REMEMBER!!! When posting a question about your Mustang or other Ford on this forum, BE SURE to tell us what it is, what year, engine, etc so we have enough information to go on. |