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1/24/2020 6:37 AM  #1


Coil spring rates

How are spring rates calculated?
Freestanding?
Installed height?

Just wondering

 

1/24/2020 8:59 AM  #2


Re: Coil spring rates

Springs are rated by the amount of force it takes to move the spring one inch. At least mine are. I'm sure progressive springs are another story.

Last edited by Bearing Bob (1/24/2020 9:02 AM)


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
 

1/24/2020 10:14 AM  #3


Re: Coil spring rates

A little google search can show you the calculation but it is basically a matter of the overall diameter of the spring measured from wire center to wire center, the diameter of the wire, the coil material, and the number of coils.  On a basic spring, they are relatively linear and the info from bearing bob is spot on.  A 600 pound per inch spring means that if you apply 600 pounds on a spring, it will compress 1 inch, 2 inches will take an additional 600 or a total of 1200 pounds.  So, the load increases as the spring is compressed but the spring rate remains constant.  A variable rate or progressive rate spring is wound differently and therefore is not linear.  In most cases the spring rate will become larger as the spring is compressed.

If you take a look at the linear spring calculations the number of coils directly affects the spring rate.  Contrary to what your brain may tell you, as you cut coils the spring rate actually increases.  It may be shorter, but it is now stiffer.  Cutting coils to obtain a lowered ride height is generally discouraged but a 1/2 coil may not hurt too much.

Not all 600 pound springs are the same.  They may have the same stated spring rate but as wound you may find the uninstalled height varies a lot.  If you put a tall 600 pound spring in, the car will sit high.  If you put a shorter 600 pound spring in, it will sit lower.  In most cases, and there are always exceptions, you are probably better off with a slightly shorter springs using spacers if required rather than hacking coils off of a taller spring.  As long as you don't get coil bind you are good to go.

 

1/24/2020 4:54 PM  #4


Re: Coil spring rates

Good discussion G Pat!!
How about my "theory" of using a 6 cylinder Mustang front spring  and possibly a little stiffer shock(to control the bouncy-ness of a weaker spring)?
My thinking is it would lower the front end and control the bounce with stiffer shocks Never tried it butt.............
6sal6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

1/24/2020 5:02 PM  #5


Re: Coil spring rates

I think the setup discussed with the 6 cylinder springs was tied to also doing the perch relocation.  A shock absorber or more correctly a damper dues not add stiffness.  It changes the speed/velocity that something happens but doesn't change the spring rate.  I suspect that if you used 6 cylinder springs with the lower rate the car will sit lower but would not handle well.  On a hard left turn, the right spring would want to compress more throwing off your handling.  But, with a good anti-sway bar, who knows.  Never say never....  I'd prefer a shorter spring with a rate suitable for a V8 rather than a softer spring - unless you do the perch relocation.

 

1/24/2020 5:30 PM  #6


Re: Coil spring rates

Well my 'idea' was kinduva hybrid of the perch relocation deal..... Lower ride AND a softer ride too.
Good point about the cornering/handling. Interesting subject.
6sal6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

1/24/2020 6:36 PM  #7


Re: Coil spring rates

What about a lower rated spring for a V8....when it gets cut shorter to adjust ride height?

Let’s say uninstall height = 15”
Installed height = 9”
Spring rate = 300#

How do ya calculate the new spring rate?

     Thread Starter
 

1/24/2020 7:15 PM  #8


Re: Coil spring rates

You will probably be best served contacting Street or Track  http://www.streetortrack.com/Coil-Springs-c-1393.html   

To have some fun, run numbers on this calculator to get close to a given spring rate and then remove 1 or 2 coils from the calculator  https://www.thespringstore.com/spring-rate-calculator.html   

This is a nice basic site that is easy to use to run some numbers -  https://www.blueovaltrucks.com/tech/coilspringrate.htm 

And this one is a good study - https://www.hypercoils.com/spring-rate-calculator/

 

1/25/2020 9:29 AM  #9


Re: Coil spring rates

I changed a 1966 Ranchero from a six to a 302. I added Kyb shocks and a larger sway bar at the same time. It sat lower but I didn't notice any added bounce to the front end and handled good cornering.

 

1/25/2020 6:16 PM  #10


Re: Coil spring rates

You can figure out the new rate by using this formula:

11,250,000 x wire diameter^4 / 8 x number of active turns in the coil x  mean diameter^3

An active coil is one that doesn't touch anything (in other words, the coil starts where the wire stops being in contact with anything).  Mean diameter is the inside diameter of the coil plus the wire diameter. 

So let's say the wire diameter is 0.610", the ID of the spring is 3.875", and there are 8 active coils.  Here's the math:

11,250,000 x .610^4 / 8 x 8 x  (3.875+.610)^3  or 1,557,657.113 / 5,773.874  or 269.777 lbs/in.

Now cut 1/2 coil off it, and this only changes the math by substituting 7.5 for 8 in the number of active coils, thusly:

11,250,000 x .610^4 / 8 x 7.5 x (3.875+.610)^3 or 1,557,657.113 / 5,413.007 or 287.762 lbs/in.

Net change of about 18 lbs/in in spring rate for a 1/2 coil removed.  How that effects ride height is another matter, but you should be able to get close by observing the difference between free height and installed height and doing a little simple cross multiplying.  Assuming say a 16" free height and a 10.5" installed height stock and a reduction in free height of 1" from removing say 1/2 coil the math looks like this:

16"/10.5" = 15"/x  or  16x = 157.5 or 9.844

10.5 - 9.844 or a reduction in ride height of about .656"

Now it will be a little less, because the spring rate has increased a little, but its close.  You can also work that math backwards by determining how much of an installed height change you want, say a 1" drop where the math loks like this:

16"/10.5" = x/9.5" or 152 = 10.5z or 14.476"

So you figure out where to cut the spring based on a new free height of 14.476".  One note, though I don't think applicable to a Mustang spring is that is a spring has a flat ground end, or a locating bend you should not cut anything off that end for obvious reasons. 

 

1/25/2020 10:38 PM  #11


Re: Coil spring rates

pbrownrk wrote:

I changed a 1966 Ranchero from a six to a 302. I added Kyb shocks and a larger sway bar at the same time. It sat lower but I didn't notice any added bounce to the front end and handled good cornering.

 
Ahhhhhhhhhh-HA!!!!!!
6sal6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

1/26/2020 10:24 PM  #12


Re: Coil spring rates

Thanks guys.
I never knew how spring rates were calculated.
This will be useful for future projects.
I appreciate it.

Always hear descriptions of how much was cut off a coil,
And then hear complaints about the ride.

To me sounds like the person started off with a spring with too high of a rate, then started cutting.

Sound familiar?

     Thread Starter
 

1/27/2020 7:19 AM  #13


Re: Coil spring rates

Yes, IMO if you're buying springs anyway get the right spring rate and ride height for your application.  Its where talking to a company like Eaton Detroit Spring, etc. can make a big difference.  They have blueprints for literally millions of springs, and decades of experience to inform your decision about what will be best for your application. 

Cutting springs is really only a reasonable course of action when you are just trying to mock things up, set ride height, etc.  Sometimes it works well enough that guys just leave them alone, but most times it's a crap shoot. 

 

Board footera


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