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2/12/2020 4:29 PM  #101


Re: Cam Change?

Did you try fitting a mechanical gauge direct to the block ... bypassing the sender and extension?

Last edited by 50vert (2/12/2020 4:32 PM)


"Those telephone poles were like a picket fence"
 

2/12/2020 9:08 PM  #102


Re: Cam Change?

Raymond_B wrote:

To be honest I don't know what I am looking for either! But like 6s6 it is an odd situation so just trying to look at everything for a clue.

 
Any idea is appreciated. No solution yet.


I removed the sending unit and attached the mechanical gage directly to the extension. I didn't see a reason to bypass the extension. I suppose there could be a bug in it. That would be a nice solution.

Last edited by HudginJ3 (2/12/2020 9:20 PM)


70, ragtop 351W/416 stroker Edel Performer heads w pro flow 4, Comp roller 35-421-8. T5
     Thread Starter
 

2/12/2020 9:46 PM  #103


Re: Cam Change?

Thought about that as well. Maybe some of that teflon tape on the threads of the extension is getting across the hole.

Do you get valve system clatter when the oil pressure drops to zero on your gauge?  If not, then you still have oil
Pressure.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

2/12/2020 9:46 PM  #104


Re: Cam Change?

Thought about that as well. Maybe some of that teflon tape on the threads of the extension is getting across the hole.

Do you get valve system clatter when the oil pressure drops to zero on your gauge?  If not, then you still have oil
Pressure.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

2/12/2020 10:33 PM  #105


Re: Cam Change?

No valve noise / clatter when I loose pressure. I chalked that up to turning off the engine in the nick of time.


70, ragtop 351W/416 stroker Edel Performer heads w pro flow 4, Comp roller 35-421-8. T5
     Thread Starter
 

2/13/2020 12:34 AM  #106


Re: Cam Change?

It's possible for the extension to get blocked ... bit of stray RTV ... maybe.


"Those telephone poles were like a picket fence"
 

2/17/2020 2:15 PM  #107


Re: Cam Change?


These are the lifters that I had in my engine. The top one it the one used for the flat cam, the middle one is the first one I used for the roller cam. I was told that it is an original Ford type replacement. I don't know. The bottom is the one supplied by Comp Cams for their roller cam retrofit kit. You can see that the bottom of the lifter has a little more area to go down into the lifter bore for oil control. Replacing it did not change the oil pressure issue but did slow down the amount of oil seepage between the lifter at the top of the bore. The oil pressure seems to be going down faster now. After letting it sit overnight the pressure went down to near zero at idle before the thermostat opened up. I will pull the engine again and start all over again searching for what I have missed. Unfortunately it will be awhile before I can get to it. I have a couple of airplanes that need to be fixed, one engine that is ready to be reassembled (ANOTHER ENGINE!? GAK!!) and an ignition noise issue. Fortunately for those that fly, I understand airplanes a whole lot more than automobiles. 


70, ragtop 351W/416 stroker Edel Performer heads w pro flow 4, Comp roller 35-421-8. T5
     Thread Starter
 

2/17/2020 2:26 PM  #108


Re: Cam Change?

HudginJ3 wrote:


These are the lifters that I had in my engine. The top one it the one used for the flat cam, the middle one is the first one I used for the roller cam. I was told that it is an original Ford type replacement. I don't know. The bottom is the one supplied by Comp Cams for their roller cam retrofit kit. You can see that the bottom of the lifter has a little more area to go down into the lifter bore for oil control. Replacing it did not change the oil pressure issue but did slow down the amount of oil seepage between the lifter at the top of the bore. The oil pressure seems to be going down faster now. After letting it sit overnight the pressure went down to near zero at idle before the thermostat opened up. I will pull the engine again and start all over again searching for what I have missed. Unfortunately it will be awhile before I can get to it. I have a couple of airplanes that need to be fixed, one engine that is ready to be reassembled (ANOTHER ENGINE!? GAK!!) and an ignition noise issue. Fortunately for those that fly, I understand airplanes a whole lot more than automobiles. 

doug  can I sometime just shadow you as you build / fix those airplane engines, and learn? I have talked to you how that is in my future.. but I want to start learning now, and not like I did on the mustang , start learning after sinking ungodly money into ..

sorry for off topic response. :D


If it aint broke, I have'nt tried to "Fix" it yet!
 

2/17/2020 3:26 PM  #109


Re: Cam Change?

You bet, PM me your phone.


70, ragtop 351W/416 stroker Edel Performer heads w pro flow 4, Comp roller 35-421-8. T5
     Thread Starter
 

2/17/2020 3:31 PM  #110


Re: Cam Change?

HAHAHA!  You said "airplane" and not sinking "ungodly money into it" in the same sentence.  Let me clarify:

Automotive part: 1x

Marine part: 2x

Aviation part: 5-10x

I've played in all three mediums (land, sea, and air).  Nothing makes cars seem cheaper to restore and fix than spending some time working on boats and/or aircraft. 

 

2/17/2020 4:30 PM  #111


Re: Cam Change?

I could not agree with you more. Airplanes are my first love and still what I spend most of my time with. I helped make them into a club, so I only pay for what I fly by maintaining them and the gas that I use. No way could I afford the rest of the aviation expenses that go with it. Now days they only occasionally pay me. 


70, ragtop 351W/416 stroker Edel Performer heads w pro flow 4, Comp roller 35-421-8. T5
     Thread Starter
 

2/17/2020 5:34 PM  #112


Re: Cam Change?

HudginJ3 wrote:

I could not agree with you more. Airplanes are my first love and still what I spend most of my time with. I helped make them into a club, so I only pay for what I fly by maintaining them and the gas that I use. No way could I afford the rest of the aviation expenses that go with it. Now days they only occasionally pay me. 

Sounds like a pretty good deal.  If I someday have mega bucks before I die I'd love to have an old warbird, or maybe me and a couple guys together.  Things are so expensive now, not that they were ever really cheap.  I helped my neighbor restore an AT6 Texan when I was 12-14.  He really wanted an F4U, but even then they were big bucks.  The AT6 was a decent aircraft though, not super fast, but as a trainer it was fairly responsive and maneuverable.  I took the stick a bit once it was done.  Never did anything crazy in it, but being able to experience something I'd help recreate I think hooked me on that for life.  I bought my '67 the following year. 
 

 

2/17/2020 9:15 PM  #113


Re: Cam Change?

Keep us posted Doug.


John  -- 67 Mustang Coupe 390 5 speed
 

2/17/2020 10:22 PM  #114


Re: Cam Change?

I talked the machine shop into doing it. He's hebiey into Chebies used in sprint cars and a few FoMoCo's. He's still not going to have it ready by the Bash but it'll be good to have a different set of eyes on it.


70, ragtop 351W/416 stroker Edel Performer heads w pro flow 4, Comp roller 35-421-8. T5
     Thread Starter
 

2/18/2020 8:51 AM  #115


Re: Cam Change?

Another set of eyes can be good. Will you take it to him complete as you pulled it from the car or in pieces?

Has he told you to drop an LS in it yet? I’ve heard it once or twice!!

Last edited by Bolted to Floor (2/18/2020 8:52 AM)


John  -- 67 Mustang Coupe 390 5 speed
 

2/18/2020 12:47 PM  #116


Re: Cam Change?

Fords pushrod  7.3 is the new talk around town, and things as they are now days, it already has a problem. Many thousands built just sitting and can't be sold because of a broken valve guides issues.
What's old is new and they still can't get it right

 

2/18/2020 1:38 PM  #117


Re: Cam Change?

Bolted to Floor wrote:

Another set of eyes can be good. Will you take it to him complete as you pulled it from the car or in pieces?

Has he told you to drop an LS in it yet? I’ve heard it once or twice!!

Chevy in a Ford, how original
 

 

2/18/2020 1:58 PM  #118


Re: Cam Change?

Bolted to Floor wrote:

Another set of eyes can be good. Will you take it to him complete as you pulled it from the car or in pieces?

Has he told you to drop an LS in it yet? I’ve heard it once or twice!!

I'm going to take the long block. He isn't set up to mount this engine in his break in room. He never suggested the LS engine but other "friends" are not shy about mentioning it.  I can't imagine all the modifications it would take to do that. It's bad enough to convert it back to the manual transmission using mostly original period correct parts. Finding the correct Z bar and trans crossmember to fit my current upgrades was bad enough.
 


70, ragtop 351W/416 stroker Edel Performer heads w pro flow 4, Comp roller 35-421-8. T5
     Thread Starter
 

3/07/2020 4:21 PM  #119


Re: Cam Change?

Found another issue and hopefully the last and final one. The main bearing journals on the “new” crankshaft were found to be .010 under sized with standard main bearings. So I’ve been driving it that way for 16 years and about 6000 miles including Detroit and back with good oil pressure the whole time. I believe it only showed itself because I changed the cam, the cam followers and oil pump. The cam followers were leaking around the bores. I changed the pump because I thought it was bad. I went from a high velocity to a normal pump because I had read that with my kind of driving it was over kill. I need to reassemble it now and reinstall it.


70, ragtop 351W/416 stroker Edel Performer heads w pro flow 4, Comp roller 35-421-8. T5
     Thread Starter
 

3/07/2020 4:59 PM  #120


Re: Cam Change?

Yup standard bearings on a .010 under crank will definitely lead to low oil pressure. What is being done to stem the flow around the lifter bores?

Let us all hope this solves your low oil pressure problems and that you can break in the new bearings on the way to the bash.


Gary Zilik - Pine Junction, Colorado - 67 Coupe, 289-4V, T5
 

3/07/2020 5:40 PM  #121


Re: Cam Change?

The lifters were replaced with Comp Cam brand lifters. The Ford ones have a smaller area that don’t hold in the oil as long. Reference the pic on 2-17-20.


70, ragtop 351W/416 stroker Edel Performer heads w pro flow 4, Comp roller 35-421-8. T5
     Thread Starter
 

3/07/2020 6:27 PM  #122


Re: Cam Change?

Makes me wonder................what if....you had run a high volume oil pump the whole issue would have never happened?!! Jus say'in!  NORMALLY with std size journals(not undersized) std bears and regular pressure oil pump is fine. Change that combination by one or the other and....
You pretty confident the Cop Cam lifters are a little bigger in diameter than the FoMoCo units?  Certainly the better way than having to sleeve the lifter bores and all-that-jazz!
Sure hope this fixes it!!!
6sal6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

3/07/2020 7:00 PM  #123


Re: Cam Change?

Doug, I’m glad the problem has been identified. You should be able to assemble it faster this time with all the practice you’ve had!!! 


John  -- 67 Mustang Coupe 390 5 speed
 

3/07/2020 8:36 PM  #124


Re: Cam Change?

6- Not by diameter but by the length of the part of it that stays in the bore. Maybe diameter but I’m not sure.  When going through the trouble shooting process it by passed a lot of oil that came out of the top into valley leading us to think it was worse at the bottom. That’s why I chose the Comp Cam brand. The oil pressure test showed that fixed it. So now I have a new standard oil pump and a good high volume oil pump.   Any body want one???

Bolted. I still have to clean everything up so I can get going again. I never memorize the torque specs. I think that is a bad OH MAN.  I think I also learned something about plastigage too.


70, ragtop 351W/416 stroker Edel Performer heads w pro flow 4, Comp roller 35-421-8. T5
     Thread Starter
 

3/07/2020 8:55 PM  #125


Re: Cam Change?

The problem was exactly as I originally suspected. You cannot run Ford roller lifters in a non-roller block unless a reduced base circle cam is used.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

Board footera


REMEMBER!!! When posting a question about your Mustang or other Ford on this forum, BE SURE to tell us what it is, what year, engine, etc so we have enough information to go on.