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2/28/2020 7:08 PM  #1


power disc brake conversion help please

I just upgraded my 65 with a complete power disc brake conversion for the front. I cant seem to get a hard pedal . We have no leaks and it will stop . I noticed that as soon as i press the pedal it starts to slow but the pedal will go about 2" before it gets to a harder feel. but that is almost at the floor and still feels spongy. We replaced the main rear line because it was leaking. Got them bleed with a friend to where I could do each 3 times with no air?


Slammed Big Blue, ran over the varmints that messed with the Stang. Now all is good in the NW
 

2/28/2020 8:26 PM  #2


Re: power disc brake conversion help please

Check   the location of the caliper bleed crew. It should be at the top of the caliper. If the left and right are installed on the wrong side and the bleed screw is on the low side no amount of bleeding will purge the air trapped at the top.

Last edited by Rudi (2/28/2020 8:30 PM)


Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
 

2/28/2020 9:12 PM  #3


Re: power disc brake conversion help please

What kind of disc brakes?
Bleed screws should intersect the top of the caliper piston, but should not be pointing straight up on certain calipers. They typically point towards the rear of the car.
If thry point straight up, the calipers are on the wrong side of the car.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

2/28/2020 9:55 PM  #4


Re: power disc brake conversion help please

They are correct. Im questioning the rear as this is kinda the way it was when I had 4 drums.
Kit is from kentucky Mustang. 


Slammed Big Blue, ran over the varmints that messed with the Stang. Now all is good in the NW
     Thread Starter
 

2/28/2020 11:09 PM  #5


Re: power disc brake conversion help please

Did you bench bleed the master cylinder?  They can be difficult to bleed, but it must be done to get air out of the mc.  The  web is full of how too's on bench bleeding.


Original owner - 351w,T-5, 4whl disks, power R&P
 

2/29/2020 12:55 AM  #6


Re: power disc brake conversion help please

Looks like Kelsey Hayes type calipers. Does the kit do anything to change the pedal ratio?
Are the rear brakes properly adjusted?


"Those telephone poles were like a picket fence"
 

2/29/2020 9:21 AM  #7


Re: power disc brake conversion help please

Yes on the bench bleed, And no on the pedal ratio. The first 1-2" is soft but slowing the car then the pedal firm up and you feel the disc but not like I expect. Its the first part of the pedal that bothers me, because I think that should be all firm. I checked to see if the rod was making contact and I would say yes as with no bolts on the MC the pedal will move it as soon as you start to push. Could this be trapped air in the calipers?


Slammed Big Blue, ran over the varmints that messed with the Stang. Now all is good in the NW
     Thread Starter
 

2/29/2020 2:16 PM  #8


Re: power disc brake conversion help please

Did you rebuild the rear brakes, too?   If you did not adjust the rear shoes out to the drums, it will exhibit the exact symptoms you are experiencing.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

2/29/2020 5:15 PM  #9


Re: power disc brake conversion help please

A trick I learned a gazillion years ago was to apply the parking brake and then with the engine running (power brakes) step on the brake pedal, wait, step on it again. If it stays firm after the first pedal press then the rear drums need adjusting as the shoes are too far away from the drums. 


Gary Zilik - Pine Junction, Colorado - 67 Coupe, 289-4V, T5
 

2/29/2020 5:51 PM  #10


Re: power disc brake conversion help please

Yes rears were a tad loose, I did a vacuum pump on all 4 corners, even taped on the calipers with a rubber hammer while pumping this morning and checked for leaks again.  then i said lets go out and drive it some more. Pedal seems to be a little firmer, well the more i drive it the better it seams to get. I real thought I should have a rock hard pedal right off the top.  Maybe it is just I am not used to the feel. because when you push on the pedal the car does stop. Giong to drive it some more this week after all it mite have 5 miles on it. We will see where we are then. if I have to I can take it to a shop that did my AC and have them go through them. 


Slammed Big Blue, ran over the varmints that messed with the Stang. Now all is good in the NW
     Thread Starter
 

2/29/2020 5:59 PM  #11


Re: power disc brake conversion help please

50vert wrote:

Looks like Kelsey Hayes type calipers. Does the kit do anything to change the pedal ratio?
Are the rear brakes properly adjusted?

No the kit does nothing for the pedal ratio and yes the rears are out as far as you can go before lock up.


Slammed Big Blue, ran over the varmints that messed with the Stang. Now all is good in the NW
     Thread Starter
 

2/29/2020 6:58 PM  #12


Re: power disc brake conversion help please

Get the pads bedded in, then see how you like it. I'd consider changing the ratio, and making a drop pushrod to suit. It should help with that first 1-2 inches.


"Those telephone poles were like a picket fence"
 

2/29/2020 11:09 PM  #13


Re: power disc brake conversion help please

OK sounds good We can talk more, mabe at the bash


Slammed Big Blue, ran over the varmints that messed with the Stang. Now all is good in the NW
     Thread Starter
 

3/01/2020 8:26 AM  #14


Re: power disc brake conversion help please

You can’t just change pedal ratio without using components that match the new ratio. That means booster multiplication and master cylinder bore size and pedal ratio all must work together to deliver at least 1,000 psi at the disc brakes.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

3/04/2020 10:14 AM  #15


Re: power disc brake conversion help please

New question: just how hard should it be to push in the MC when bench bleeding. Should it stay the same the whole time, or does it get real stiff. Using the lines into the MC method. Could this be my soft pedal feel. I bench bleed for 5 minutes and it seemed that all the air was gone. pedal feels the same with or without the engine running, but defiantly has power brake stopping power/feel when running as you press down. Just has 2" of soft travel while slowing down then you can nose dive if you push more. 


Slammed Big Blue, ran over the varmints that messed with the Stang. Now all is good in the NW
     Thread Starter
 

3/04/2020 3:28 PM  #16


Re: power disc brake conversion help please

On bench bleeding the master its not going to get stiff (heh, wait, wrong thread), you aren't building pressure.  You're purging air.  Once the air is gone you're good. 

I'm concerned about the pedal ratio though.  Not sure on the '65 cars, but my '67 uses totally different pedals for power and manual brakes that use different mounting points in the pedal support.  MS, this is your area, what's the deal on the pedals in '65 power vs. manual?

 

3/04/2020 4:09 PM  #17


Re: power disc brake conversion help please

IIRC, 65-66 had a different pedal ratio for power brakes, they used the same pedal though. The change was made on the other side of the firewall, at the bellcrank behind the original booster.
I've never had an original booster to check the bellcrank ratio though.

Last edited by 50vert (3/04/2020 4:30 PM)


"Those telephone poles were like a picket fence"
 

3/04/2020 8:25 PM  #18


Re: power disc brake conversion help please

I talked with the tech department with CCP the manufacturer of kit. He asked me how I bleed the system and told me that the pedal is normal for the 65. He said if the play was not doing anything then there was a problem. He also said it will not be like a n.v new car feel. I think I got very good customer service from Kentucky Mustang as the gave me the number after just a couple questions.

CHRIS


Slammed Big Blue, ran over the varmints that messed with the Stang. Now all is good in the NW
     Thread Starter
 

3/05/2020 5:51 AM  #19


Re: power disc brake conversion help please

The way I heard brake pedal feel explained was the pedal should have 1/3 free travel, 1/3 braking, and 1/3 between max braking and the floor.  I think if you've got that you're good.

 

3/05/2020 11:12 AM  #20


Re: power disc brake conversion help please

TKOPerformance wrote:

The way I heard brake pedal feel explained was the pedal should have 1/3 free travel, 1/3 braking, and 1/3 between max braking and the floor.  I think if you've got that you're good.

Yes I would say that is about what I have kinda. maybe at the pedal, 1" free, 1-1/2" braking and hard 2+" from the floor. the more I drive it the more it seams like it is working well. Its just not the same ratio as new cars. I could just the arm so it is a little closer to the floor, but I need to know first that all is working as it should be. I mite this winter do the change to Steves brake arm mount and booster change over. we will see 


Slammed Big Blue, ran over the varmints that messed with the Stang. Now all is good in the NW
     Thread Starter
 

3/05/2020 1:43 PM  #21


Re: power disc brake conversion help please

A lot of new vehicles are also going to hydroboost to save space.  These systems provide a different assist feel than vacuum. 

 

3/05/2020 2:40 PM  #22


Re: power disc brake conversion help please

Soon to come, electric brakes.


Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
 

3/05/2020 4:37 PM  #23


Re: power disc brake conversion help please

Rudi wrote:

Soon to come, electric brakes.

Is the default position on or off?  Either way it will be scary as hell when people hack into those vehicles via the unsecured WIFI or OnStar systems and command the brakes...
 

 

3/05/2020 4:54 PM  #24


Re: power disc brake conversion help please

Brake-by-wire systems have been used in Formula One race cars for years. But  a gradual conversion on production vehicles, similar to the switch from drum brakes to disc brakes, as companies work to reduce costs and refine algorithms.
Brembo is doing resarch on it now.

Last edited by Rudi (3/05/2020 4:56 PM)


Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
 

3/05/2020 5:41 PM  #25


Re: power disc brake conversion help please

I think you have a booster issue.  Long easy stroke then whammo!!  full brakes.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

Board footera


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