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  •  » A C4/Drive Shaft Conundrum

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    2/29/2020 1:39 PM  #1

    riwall
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    From: Sherman, Texas
    Registered: 4/02/2013
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    A C4/Drive Shaft Conundrum

    '67 Coupe with a 302 & C-4. We removed the drive shaft to replace the extension housing rear seal to (hopefully) fix a fluid leak. Installed the new seal and when trying to re-install the drive shaft the yoke will slide in OK initially but stops about 2 inches short of being all the way in. We have twisted, turned, greased and tried various forms of "encouragement" but it always stops 2" short. Sort of feels like it is jamming up against something. Any ideas as to what we are missing or suggested fixes would be greatly appreciated. The sun is shining and it is 72 degrees and my toy is "grounded".   

     

    2/29/2020 2:09 PM  #2

    MS
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    From: Canyon Lake, Texas
    Registered: 1/24/2013
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    Re: A C4/Drive Shaft Conundrum

    Did you pull it out and try it in a different spline position?   Can’t think of anything that should be keeping it from going in.

    Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
     

    2/29/2020 2:18 PM  #3

    DC
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    From: Marshall, MI
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    Re: A C4/Drive Shaft Conundrum

    Could be that socket your grand son slid in the yolk while you weren't paying attention to him. Don't ask! I was about ready to tear tranny out when I just happened to stick a screw driver in the yolk. worth a look though.

     

    2/29/2020 2:38 PM  #4

    riwall
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    From: Sherman, Texas
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    Re: A C4/Drive Shaft Conundrum

    Yes, we turned the yoke numerous times trying to get the splines to mesh but no luck. Also used a flashlight to check into the yoke and housing but could not see any obstruction. My mechanic friend wants me to order a new yoke but I am unsure of what that would do. The yoke came out fine so one would think that it should go back in. 

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    2/29/2020 4:26 PM  #5

    TKOPerformance
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    From: Newark, DE
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    Re: A C4/Drive Shaft Conundrum

    Rotate it around to different splines until it goes in.  If it came out it will go back in.  There's a bur or something on one of the splines probably.  I've had this happen a lot over the years.  Just keep repositioning it and eventually you'll match it up and it will slide right in. 

     

    2/29/2020 6:25 PM  #6

    Bullet Bob
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    Re: A C4/Drive Shaft Conundrum

    TKOPerformance wrote:

    Rotate it around to different splines until it goes in.  If it came out it will go back in.  There's a bur or something on one of the splines probably.  I've had this happen a lot over the years.  Just keep repositioning it and eventually you'll match it up and it will slide right in. 

    Always good when it "slides right in".  Sorry, couldn't resist.  You can holler at Jack and I at the bash.

    BB
     

    "you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
     

    2/29/2020 7:12 PM  #7

    riwall
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    From: Sherman, Texas
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    Re: A C4/Drive Shaft Conundrum

    Well, I was originally going to say that the yoke would not totally penetrate but I thought I had better use other terminology. Now that Bullet Bob has broken the ice I suppose it is game on.
    In any event, it looks like tomorrow will be spent poking and prodding. 50 years ago that would have been a much more enjoyable experience. Ah, to be young again.   

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    3/01/2020 6:19 AM  #8

    TKOPerformance
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    From: Newark, DE
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    Re: A C4/Drive Shaft Conundrum

    Bullet Bob wrote:

    TKOPerformance wrote:

    Rotate it around to different splines until it goes in.  If it came out it will go back in.  There's a bur or something on one of the splines probably.  I've had this happen a lot over the years.  Just keep repositioning it and eventually you'll match it up and it will slide right in. 

    Always good when it "slides right in".  Sorry, couldn't resist.  You can holler at Jack and I at the bash.

    BB
     

    For what?  I was tempted to throw "that's what she said" into my own post
     

     

    3/01/2020 9:59 AM  #9

    Bentworker
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    Re: A C4/Drive Shaft Conundrum

    I’d take a close look at everything- look for...
    1) A double spline for clocking.
    2) Twisted splines.
    3) If a hammer did get used look for anything that may have been altered by its use.
    4) If you did replace the bushing it is possible that it is the problem.  I’ve seen them be slightly too small for the yoke- or get deformed from driving them in.  I have had enough issues with transmission bushings that I always check fitment.

    If everything looks okay I’d try try again.  I find the shake method handy.  A steady up and down shake while applying forward force.

     

    3/01/2020 10:18 AM  #10

    riwall
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    From: Sherman, Texas
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    Re: A C4/Drive Shaft Conundrum

    OK. I am just about to crawl underneath and get to work. I'll let you know what if anything happens.

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    3/03/2020 1:55 PM  #11

    riwall
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    From: Sherman, Texas
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    Re: A C4/Drive Shaft Conundrum

    Update - a couple of issues came up. First, I was still having trouble getting the drive shaft to totally penetrate (thanks Bullet Bob) into the extension housing. I spoke with a local transmission chap who asked if the rear wheels were off the ground. They are. He said I should jack up the differential "a bit" and the drive shaft should slide right in. Haven't tried that yet. Any thoughts on that?
    I'll be removing the extension housing to try to seal some leaks. My Shop Manual shows a "Spline Seal" (looks like an O'Ring) near the rear of the output shaft. One of my buddies sez that I should replace the "Spline Seal". Another friend sez that this seal is not required and if there is one on the shaft it is probably trash so just toss it out. Who's right?
    ​Thanks for any advice. 

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    3/03/2020 2:49 PM  #12

    RV6
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    From: Pine Junction, CO
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    Re: A C4/Drive Shaft Conundrum

    My thoughts on the spline seal. Mine had one but no longer does. The seal is jammed onto the output shaft and seals the output shaft and tail-shaft bushing so nothing enters or leaves the tranny during shipping. Once a yoke is installed the spline shaft seal is pushed further into the transmission and no longer serves a purpose.

    Your transmission chap is assuming you have the driveshaft installed. Do you?

    Last edited by RV6 (3/03/2020 2:50 PM)

    Gary Zilik - Pine Junction, Colorado - 67 Coupe, 289-4V, T5
     

    3/03/2020 4:29 PM  #13

    MS
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    From: Canyon Lake, Texas
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    Re: A C4/Drive Shaft Conundrum

    Obviously if the rear of the driveshaft was being restricted by the rear end, you would have certainly noticed that, right?  Right????

    Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
     

    3/03/2020 5:10 PM  #14

    TKOPerformance
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    From: Newark, DE
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    Re: A C4/Drive Shaft Conundrum

    The spline seal won't do anything anyway.  In operation the yoke is constantly moving in and out (heh) as the suspension cycles.  A stationary seal isn't going to do much for sealing.  I'm with RV6 on this one.  They don't do anything once you're using the trans. 

    I would not try to force the yoke in, either by beating on it, or using the compression of the suspension to ram it in (hah).  If it won't go, something is wrong.  Forcing it is only going to risk damaging something further. 

     

    3/03/2020 5:51 PM  #15

    riwall
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    From: Sherman, Texas
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    Re: A C4/Drive Shaft Conundrum

    Thanks a lot guys. I always appreciate not having to buy something. I suppose that the reason I was unable to find a spline seal is that I don't need it. 
    Anyway, we'll be removing the extension housing next weekend to install a gasket at the front and a new seal at the rear. Should be able to see what, if anything is stopping total penetration (heh, heh, heh) of the yoke. Maybe I'll be back on the road soon.  

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    3/03/2020 8:13 PM  #16

    RPM, aka Bearing Bob
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    Re: A C4/Drive Shaft Conundrum

    If I you, I would remove the tail shaft housing, check for that seal, and remove if it's there.

    My FMX had one that somehow got wedged between the output shaft and yoke, which prevented any movement of the yoke, or its removal with the tailhousing installed.

    Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
     

    3/16/2020 7:15 PM  #17

    riwall
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    From: Sherman, Texas
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    Re: A C4/Drive Shaft Conundrum

    I think the issue is solved. We removed the extension housing and replaced the front gasket and the rear seal. I had ordered a new yoke just in case and it slid right onto the shaft. Apparently the old one which was original had some twisted (damaged) splines. I drove it for a couple of days and all was well - no leaking. It has been raining for a few days now so the car has been in the garage and so far no leaks. If it does not leak within the next 2 days or so while the torque converter drains I'll be ecstatic! Thanks for all the help.  

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    3/16/2020 10:26 PM  #18

    Ron68
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    Re: A C4/Drive Shaft Conundrum

    riwall wrote:

    '67 Coupe with a 302 & C-4. We removed the drive shaft to replace the extension housing rear seal to (hopefully) fix a fluid leak. Installed the new seal and when trying to re-install the drive shaft the yoke will slide in OK initially but stops about 2 inches short of being all the way in. We have twisted, turned, greased and tried various forms of "encouragement" but it always stops 2" short. Sort of feels like it is jamming up against something. Any ideas as to what we are missing or suggested fixes would be greatly appreciated. The sun is shining and it is 72 degrees and my toy is "grounded".   

    Did you have any problem or notice anything strange when you removed it? I had the same thing happen on my driveshaft when I went to replace the front yoke due to it leaking transmission fluid. What I found when I went to remove the shaft, it would only move a couple of inches forward. It took some prying to get the u-joint out of the yoke. I removed the front yoke in order to seal it, and when I looked inside to see where the leak was (a cap that had leaked), I notice that the internal splines were twisted slightly, about 2 inches from the bottom, and that was stopping the yoke from seating fully onto the output shaft. I had bought a "cheap" one online and obviously the metal wasn't heat treated or strong enough and it began to twist. I got a new Spicer one and it's all good now.
     

    68 coupe - 351W, 4R70W, 9" 3.25 -- 65 convertible - 289 4v, C4, 8" 3.00
     

    3/17/2020 9:02 AM  #19

    riwall
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    From: Sherman, Texas
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    Re: A C4/Drive Shaft Conundrum

    Sounds like a similar situation. The original yoke seemed a bit hard to remove but as this was a first for me I did not have anything to compare it to. When trying to re-install it, it stopped about 2" short of full penetration (thank you Bullet Bob). On spec, I ordered a Ford Performance yoke from CJ Pony. My mechanic friend said that the old one (probably 52 years old) appeared to have some spline twisting. The new one slid in easily and all is well in the world.

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    3/17/2020 5:51 PM  #20

    6sally6
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    From: Surfside Beach,SC
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    Re: A C4/Drive Shaft Conundrum

    I was gonna ask if you were SURE you were trying to put in in the 'correct hole'.......butt ....... decided to let it pass.
    Glad you got it!
    6s6

    Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
     

    3/17/2020 6:43 PM  #21

    MS
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    From: Canyon Lake, Texas
    Registered: 1/24/2013
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    Re: A C4/Drive Shaft Conundrum

    This post was excellent in describing a problem and the ultimate fix. Everybody on the forum learned from it.

    Thanks for posting the question and the solution.

    Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
     

     

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