I think it's a whole different ball game when you pair engine control computers with electronically operated items like cooling fans and power steering. Heck the Megasquirt gives you a myriad of items when working with an elec fan, speed control (cut on or off depending on MPH and temp), idle up when fan comes on, wide open throttle cut, etc, etc.

But this discussion is more around an elec fan in a non-EFI car. To me the key here is to simply use quality components and proper assembly. That goes for elec or manual fans which, honestly, is a personal preference when it's all said and done.

The Borgeson system is designed to use a Saginaw (GM) pump.  Plenty of people have adapted Ford pumps, either Fox era or earlier.  The reason I wouldn't advise doing that is twofold.  First, the Fox PS system is designed to use Ford F-Type ATF as fluid.  I've read numerous posts where guys have noise from their pump and determine its that they didn't know it was supposed to use F-Type ATF and ran Power Steering fluid in it instead.  So you really don't want to run Power Steering fluid in a Fox pump, but I don't know about running Type F ATF through the Borgeson box, which is designed for Power Steering fluid.  I can guarantee this: if there's an issue with it and you need a warranty claim they will deny it if red fluid drips out of the box when the get it back. 

Second, I know everyone loves their Fords, and its all Ford or nothing, but lets' be honest.  Ford's PS pumps don't exactly have the best reputation for being quiet or lasting forever.  The Saginaw pumps by contrast were used on every GM product and even other makes of vehicles they were so reliable and trouble free. 

However, doesn't mean you can't use the Fox front dress, you just need this adapter:

https://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product/Delphi_saginaw_pump_bracket/Bronco_HD_Delphi_Steering_Pumps

And this pulley:

https://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product/Power-Steering-Pump-Serp-Pulley-Steel/Bronco_HD_Delphi_Steering_Pumps

When I get around to swapping my '67 over to serpentine drive that's what I'm doing.  Also going to use a Fox AC compressor.  Its a good, reliable design, and easily and cheaply rebuilt if needed. 

As for electric vs. mechanical fan I greatly prefer electric, especially in a car with AC.  My '67 is electric, my '89 GT will be when its done too.  They may take a little time to get dialed in, but once they are its basically a forgotten thing.  On the other hand, I've know guys who went through several mechanical/clutch combos, different shrouds, etc. all trying to get such a setup right as well.  So I wouldn't just assume a mechanical setup will have no issues, etc.  FWIW, I don't care about the HP difference.  I enjoy the better cooling and better control I get from my electric setup.  Some of that is personal preference I'll grant you, but that's kind of why this whole topic tends to be polarizing I think. 

Years ago I went electric. Got caught up in all the hype about horse power loss.
First try was a Spal pusher with the 20” o/e rad that was re-cored, still ran hot. Next a 16” puller with that rad, still ran hot.
I got pissed so ordered a Champion three tube 24” aluminum rad, made a shroud and cut down a 17” ,5 blade mechanical flex fan to fit and never looked back.
What ever the HP loss was I have not noticed or cared, more important the engine temps are where I want them at all times.
Some times you just have to go with old school basics.

Mechanical steering...power fans....man lots to cuss and discuss.

I have always preferred a mechanical fan just because I never wanted to mess around with the wiring for electric...and I'm a wire guy.  Oh well.
Anyway, The Heap has just over 30k since I added the 5.0 and has been running the seven blade clutch fan that was on the original 289 when we bought the car.  I run a 20" aluminum Vintage Mustang special radiator (MS used to sell them) with a proper shroud, a spring in the lower hose, thermal clutch fan and 194 degree stat as came with the EFI 5.0.  The car runs at 194 and will rise to around 210 after idling for a long time...like in a parade...on a 95 degree summer day with the AC on.  No problems, I'm happy and so is the Heap.

Steering:  We have a Borg box with a 5.0 ps pump that was installed 17K ago.  Started off using Type F and Borg said no problem.  Well after a couple of years the box started leaking at the sector seal and you can't just pull and replace that seal...in fact there are two in there.  So I pulled the box and sent it back to Borg for seals.  Now I run PS fluid and while at the WACO Mini-Bash last Nov. I noticed that the ps pump was leaking a bit.  So pulled and re-sealed the pump...pretty easy... and now we'll see if that leak was due to 30k miles or 10k or so on PS Fluid. 

Butt (TS&T), I'm still happy and the Heap seems to be also.

BB1

Last edited by Bullet Bob (4/06/2020 11:53 AM)

All of this got started because I was trying to determine if the drop in RPM when my fans were turned on was due to amp draw to start the fans or a constant draw on the ALT when the fans operate as the RPMs don't return until the fans are turned off. I related the RPM drop to power consumption. I do not car about the power required to operate a fan/fans electrically or mechanically.

As MS mentioned there are those that design systems in great detail, and those that are questionable at best. I have my moments but try to make sure things are right in every way that I can. My goal is always to have things as well done as i can do, while operating with-in the budget that I have and making every dollar count. (Bang For The Buck)

I started this project ten years ago, and sold it almost 8 years ago and now just recently got luck enough to get it back. The car was driven less than 500 miles over that time and the owner was satisfied to just turn the fans on manually and leave them on every time he drove it (which wasn't much). I never got the temp switch to work quite right. Now it is time for me to complete this project as I had always planned.

Based purely on providing myself with the most reliable product for the dollar spent, I believe it will be better spent going mechanical. What I have learned listening to all of you is that if I want this system to operate correctly I need a fan controller and defiantly a better quality temperature switch. I know I can put the correct fan shroud and clutch fan on for far less money and have a system that I don't have to think about.

The next question will be to run a stock fan/clutch or a Fox 5.0 fan/clutch and serpentine set-up. I plan to add PS and AC which the Fox stuff would get me headed in the right direction. 

I don't think it is a foregone conclusion that an electric fan will fail.  I have 218,000 miles on the stock ones in my WRX.  158,000 on the stock one in my IROC.  I'm quite confident that an OE quality fan like the ones SPAL builds or something like the Contour fans will last at the very least an extremely long time, provided they are competently installed.  In the gran scheme of everything has a service life, sure at some point EVERYTHING fails.  OE electric fuel pumps have left me personally stranded three times, but an OE electric fan never has. 

TKOPerformance wrote:

The Borgeson system is designed to use a Saginaw (GM) pump.  Plenty of people have adapted Ford pumps, either Fox era or earlier.  The reason I wouldn't advise doing that is twofold.  First, the Fox PS system is designed to use Ford F-Type ATF as fluid.  I've read numerous posts where guys have noise from their pump and determine its that they didn't know it was supposed to use F-Type ATF and ran Power Steering fluid in it instead.  So you really don't want to run Power Steering fluid in a Fox pump, but I don't know about running Type F ATF through the Borgeson box, which is designed for Power Steering fluid.  I can guarantee this: if there's an issue with it and you need a warranty claim they will deny it if red fluid drips out of the box when the get it back. 

Second, I know everyone loves their Fords, and its all Ford or nothing, but lets' be honest.  Ford's PS pumps don't exactly have the best reputation for being quiet or lasting forever.  The Saginaw pumps by contrast were used on every GM product and even other makes of vehicles they were so reliable and trouble free. 

However, doesn't mean you can't use the Fox front dress, you just need this adapter:

https://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product/Delphi_saginaw_pump_bracket/Bronco_HD_Delphi_Steering_Pumps

And this pulley:

https://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product/Power-Steering-Pump-Serp-Pulley-Steel/Bronco_HD_Delphi_Steering_Pumps

When I get around to swapping my '67 over to serpentine drive that's what I'm doing.  Also going to use a Fox AC compressor.  Its a good, reliable design, and easily and cheaply rebuilt if needed. 

As for electric vs. mechanical fan I greatly prefer electric, especially in a car with AC.  My '67 is electric, my '89 GT will be when its done too.  They may take a little time to get dialed in, but once they are its basically a forgotten thing.  On the other hand, I've know guys who went through several mechanical/clutch combos, different shrouds, etc. all trying to get such a setup right as well.  So I wouldn't just assume a mechanical setup will have no issues, etc.  FWIW, I don't care about the HP difference.  I enjoy the better cooling and better control I get from my electric setup.  Some of that is personal preference I'll grant you, but that's kind of why this whole topic tends to be polarizing I think. 

Hey there a side note on fluid. I have the saginaw conversion in my 65 and run Amsoil tranny fluid in it. I have no problems or noise. I have been running this fluid in my 67 Chevy truck for 30 years turing 36" tall tires with a 3 turn lock 2 lock box out of a 70s TA never a problem.