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If you haven't seen it back in January I made a post about how I designed and built my own coil over setup. The goal of that build was to take the stock suspension configuration and rework it to accept a coil over that mounted to the LCA, make everything move freely, and have some adjustability for setting the alignment. Originally when I did that build I took a stock set of LCAs and upgraded them to accept a screw in ball joint, a spherical bearing at the frame mount end and I boxed them in for added strength. They turned out well but lacked in adjustability. When I put all this together I intended to install a camber kit but the more I though about it the more I realized an adjustable LCA would be a better solution. Huge thank you to RPM!! Having built his own LCAs he was a great source of information and inspiration.
First thing I did to build my adjustable LCAs was order a set of cheep rock auto LCAs. I wasn't worried about quality as I knew I would be beefing them up. From there I took a couple of weld in ball joint sleeves and chucked them up in my lathe to cut them down and create a lip. It looks like more in the picture but I only removed about .030"
I then stripped the LCAs of the ball joints and enlarged the hole to except the ball joint sleeve.
I did it a little bit at a time and made it a press fit. I will be welding them in as well but figured an added mechanical connection would be a good idea. The lip insured that the sleeve was perfectly lined up with the face of the LCA.
I then used an OEM LCA and some scrap steel to build a fixture so I could recreate the OEM angles and over all function.
Once I had the fixture it was time to cut the back half off of the LCA.
With it all mocked up in the fixture you can see what a time saver that fixture was in getting everything lined up. I did discover that the OEM LCA I had used to build the fixture was not symmetrical but with carful measurement and a little shimming at the heim mount end, I was able to get it shimmed from side to side so that the heim would be centered. One thing to note and here is a situation where RPM really helped me out, most adjustable LCAs use a male heim joint but RPM said when his were adjustable he didn't like it because it was extremely hard to get a wrench in the mounting pocket to tighten the jam nut. I solved this issue by using a female heim.
I then fabbed up some 1/8" plates to go around the weld in bungs and took them to a local welder to have them tig welded to said bungs.
From there I was able to use my fixture to position the bungs and tack them into place. Again it took a lot of adjustment to get everything aligned properly and strait prior to tack welding.
The last obstacle to overcome was the heim being 3/4" it had a 3/4" hole in the ball AND it was not wide enough to fill the mounting pocket so I fired up the lathe and machined 4 bushings (out of a couple of pieces of the Jaguar IRS drive shaft that had been cut from my drive shafts when I had them shortened for the IRS project). the bushings will shrink the heim to 1/2" and take up the gap. I also machined them a bit small width wise so that I can put a washer between the bushing and the rear of the frame mount to add a little extra caster.
This is where they are at as of yesterday. I need to finish weld the bung plate to the LCA bodies, box in the LCA bodies AND I am going to add boxing from the tip of the bung back to the LCA body, on all 4 sides so that the change in diameter is gradual and the load is distributed by more than just the 1/8" plate the bung is welded to.
With it mocked up in the car I am extremely happy with how it has turned out so far. The adjustability works well and now both camber and caster are as simple to adjust as tuning a wrench.
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Where did you get the "bung" and the adjuster screw/bolt? I assume that you are using a LH/RH thread setup? I went with the screw in ball joints and the camber kit but can see that this would make adjustments much easier and pulling out bolts and changing the offset plates. Nice work!
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The LH/RH adjuster bolts are a QA1 product that I got from Summit. Speedway carries them as well and Summit is also where I got the bungs and the female heim joints.
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I love the way you think Day. If I had a 65/66 I'd certainly want a set of these to be able to get the proper caster without binding the bushings. At least half the projects on my 69 I've said I did them because I could, but I opted to buy some high misalignment bushings.
Day, are you gonna have this suspension ready for the drive to Sally's 2020 Bash in Myrtle Beach?
Last edited by rpm (7/13/2019 6:58 PM)
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Very nice. Wouldn't mind a set of those.
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Daze, that center connection scares the hell out of me. Please tell me there is more to it than what appears in the last pic!!!
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Read photo captions.
BB
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MS wrote:
Daze, that center connection scares the hell out of me. Please tell me there is more to it than what appears in the last pic!!!
Way more. in the pic its only tack welded and I I am going to box it in from the tip of the bung to the LCA body. Also the bottom piece will run the entire length of the LCA. It will be one solid piece from the tip of the bung to the ball joint end.
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looking good let us know how it handles
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Do you think you are going to have any issues with the ball joint binding? From the pics, there seems to be a difference in the arc of the arm in stock form vs. your modification. I do like the ball joint mod, though. I think that was a very slick way to install the threaded bung.
Last edited by Greg B (7/19/2019 8:25 PM)
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Greg B wrote:
Do you think you are going to have any issues with the ball joint binding? From the pics, there seems to be a difference in the arc of the arm in stock form vs. your modification. I do like the ball joint mod, though. I think that was a very slick way to install the threaded bung.
Should be correct. That’s why I made the jig so I would maintain all the OEM angles.
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working on adjustable LCA 2.0
I hadn't messed with this project for a while because I didn't like the way it was coming together. The concept was sound and I could have made it work but there was no way to get it to look clean. I started to work on it several times but kept putting it back on the shelf. I recently got back to it however. I had a credit at RockAuto that I needed to spend and figured it was a good time to get a couple more LCAs and start from scratch. This time I decided to cut them longer, slice and bend them rather then boxing them in after the fact. Nothing is welded up yet but I am far happier with this outcome.
I will weld them on the inside and outside where I sliced them to bend them.
I drilled out the end of the cuts so there was no stress point
I also found a much better threaded sleeve. Compared to the original one I used, It is longer, uniform shape, and threaded the entire length of the sleeve so I was able to build in a little more adjustment. One nice thing with the sleeve being a uniform shape I will be able to drill two holes through the top of the LCA and rosette weld the body to the sleeve. It will also be welded in on the outside end to the side and top of the UCA body as well as the support around the sway bar link hole. Once I get it all together I will use some 16 gauge to sheet the bottom and tie it all together into a boxed in LCA.
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Very Nice!
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I think that'll turn out real nice Day. What up with the double jamb nuts?
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Bearing Bob wrote:
What up with the double jamb nuts?
It's there to set the length and allow for 3/8" adjustment less than stock. Besides the fixture I wanted a way to make them both identical length wise.
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Daze wrote:
Greg B wrote:
Do you think you are going to have any issues with the ball joint binding? From the pics, there seems to be a difference in the arc of the arm in stock form vs. your modification. I do like the ball joint mod, though. I think that was a very slick way to install the threaded bung.
Should be correct. That’s why I made the jig so I would maintain all the OEM angles.
OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! MOM..........he said 'jig'!
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Have you considered what the ride quality will be? When I installed the TCP strut rods, I could feel every stone in the road, and the car creaked and groaned a lot to the point where I went back to stock.
With all of those solid joints, Your car will handle a road course very well, but 2-tracking will be out of the question.
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6sally6 wrote:
OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!
MOM..........he said 'jig'!
FIX-TURE
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lowercasesteve wrote:
Have you considered what the ride quality will be? When I installed the TCP strut rods, I could feel every stone in the road, and the car creaked and groaned a lot to the point where I went back to stock.
With all of those solid joints, Your car will handle a road course very well, but 2-tracking will be out of the question.
The car had roller perches and adjustable strut rods before I went this direction and I was very happy with ride quality even on crappy MT roads. Also by having the coil over attach to the LCA a lot of that road vibration will be absorbed and I can run a softer spring so as a whole ride quality should be good.
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lowercasesteve wrote:
Have you considered what the ride quality will be? When I installed the TCP strut rods, I could feel every stone in the road, and the car creaked and groaned a lot to the point where I went back to stock.
With all of those solid joints, Your car will handle a road course very well, but 2-tracking will be out of the question.
That's odd. My whole suspension is steel bearings, even the idler arm. Only if I specifically look for it do I notice anything. Otherwise it's a very compliant ride. No harshness or noise.
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What I don't like about them being adjustable is that these cars aren't exactly precision built and throw in 50 years of use it's hjghly probable once you adjust camber you're going to end up with lower arms that are two different lengths. Camber curve is going to be different side to side as well as everything else as the suspension cycles. What adjustments you do to one side you must do to the other side and keep the arms the same. I have Street or Track control arms. Their uppers are adjustable but are adjusted the same. Then you shim to make caster equal. That's what they say in their instructions and what is said in suspension books
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Daze wrote:
I will start out by saying that I'm not a structural engineer but I would be concerned about the bolt that attaches the strut rod end to the plate that attaches to the control arm (center of your photo). It looks to me like it would be subjected to large bending and shear loads - a single point of failure. The original design attaches the strut rods to the lca using 2 bolts and additionally uses the flattened end of the control arm applied as a plate to help resist control arm twist. It looks to me like you're design allows more twist since the control arm ball joint end is now attached to the the up-down pivot by a shaft along the axis of the twisting motion.
I probably explained that poorly - if it's unclear please indicate so and I'll try to elaborate.
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Huskinhano wrote:
What I don't like about them being adjustable is that these cars aren't exactly precision built and throw in 50 years of use it's highly probable once you adjust camber you're going to end up with lower arms that are two different lengths. Camber curve is going to be different side to side as well as everything else as the suspension cycles. What adjustments you do to one side you must do to the other side and keep the arms the same. I have Street or Track control arms. Their uppers are adjustable but are adjusted the same. Then you shim to make caster equal. That's what they say in their instructions and what is said in suspension books
That is a good point but I don't think it will be an issue. First of all we are not dealing with massive length changes. A lower control arm that is 1/8" or 1/4" longer, on an arm that is roughly 10.5" long will still have a very similar arc and only minor changes will be made to the camber curve. Second roads are far from perfect and the settings will be identical at ride height. Whats my point? with the settings being identical at ride height they will start out the same but will begin to change as the suspension travels, the more extreme the suspension travel the bigger the camber change from side to side. Most suspension travel is minimal so the camber will be very close most of the time. With that said even of everything WAS equal on both sides the camber would still be different one wheel compared to the other because road imperfections will make make it so that both wheels are almost never at the same suspension height so camber is always going to be different one side to the other. I think your point is valid from a design standpoint but I do not think it will cause any issues in practical application. I could be totally rong, we will see
John Ha wrote:
I will start out by saying that I'm not a structural engineer but I would be concerned about the bolt that attaches the strut rod end to the plate that attaches to the control arm (center of your photo). It looks to me like it would be subjected to large bending and shear loads - a single point of failure. The original design attaches the strut rods to the LCA using 2 bolts and additionally uses the flattened end of the control arm applied as a plate to help resist control arm twist. It looks to me like you're design allows more twist since the control arm ball joint end is now attached to the the up-down pivot by a shaft along the axis of the twisting motion.
Thats a good catch. The picture is old and the problem has already been addressed with a larger solid rod end using a bigger bolt and then I will also fabricate a bracket that ties the rod end bolt to the lower shock mount so that the bolt is in double sheer.
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DAZE
Following your post & build about LCA .. LOOKS GREAT !!
I have a question ?
With the adjustable LCA & adjustment in strut arm ..
the only adjustment the UCA will be used for is toe in - out minimal amount of shims
so all caster and camber are on lower control arm right !
much easier to access adjust
Great idea !!
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While we're awaiting Daze to reply, I'm gonna jump in here. UCA shims are usually used for caster and camber adjustment. While using UCA shims to adjust caster does change the toe setting, I've never heard of setting toe that way. I set toe after caster and camber by turning the steering arm adjuster.
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