Stevo wrote:

This may be met with some division, but I am yet to hear a good story involving an alloy radiator and electric fans set up on an old classic.
In my experience and from what I have read over the years, a good old copper/brass radiator with a mechanical fan is the way to go. This is what I have had on my car since I owned it (17 years). A year or so ago I had some overheating occur in the peak of summer, but that was quickly resolved with a proper radiator flush at a shop. For extra measure, I installed a 5-blade fan. The only other thing I might consider doing is fitting a fluid clutch type fan, but that is about it.
With the electric fans, these can actually block air flow...
 

Copper/brass radiators are dated technology that simply do not work as well as aluminum.  There are some benefits to them, but only as it pertains to the ability to have them recored, and more easily modified.  Aluminum rejects heat better than copper/brass, and much, much better than lead (the solder used to hold them together).  Aluminum radiators also have significantly more surface area due to the way the fins/tubes are arranged.  No vehicle has used a copper/brass radiator from the factory in over 20 years.  All new vehicles run aluminum radiators to save weight and so the engine can run hotter without fear of overheating.  Where new vehicles are lacking is that they use plastic end tanked aluminum radiators that eventually fail at the epoxy joint between the end tank and core.  An aftermarket, fully welded radiator does not have this problem. 

As for electric fans, the truth is that people are going to claim that whatever they are running that works for them is superior.  I'll put out there than no new vehicle has a mechanical fan.  I'll also add that the idea of them being more reliable can be debated based on several posts right here where fan clutches have failed, etc.  I remain convinced that the reason people shy away from electric fans is bad experience with bad electric fans.  An OE or OE quality electric fan is not going to fail.  I have four vehicles with them combining over 500k miles without a single issue.  If the fan is up to snuff then the wiring is often suspect, as electrical is an area where most hobbyists and even pro mechanics are weak in terms of knowledge.  A properly built fan control should also never have a problem.

We take cooling for granted in new vehicles.  When was the last time anyone was worried their new car or truck would overheat?  Its a problem that has simply been solved.  So if its good enough to achieve those results on new vehicles its good enough to solve the problem on older vehicles.  Thinking otherwise is frankly a syllogism. 

Gaba wrote:

Well... like stevo said, I went with 69 24” copper radiator and a flex 7 blades fan and the car never ran cooler. 
That got me to look into other issues with the engine , and why it wasn’t performing..
And like MS said, issues start in the engine , I agree , and hence I am also building a 347 lol.. so with the 24” plus flex fan keeping it all cool, I am hoping to not have this happen again, and move to other issues lol

Remember that you had a bad vacuum canister in August when you made the great write up for Duraspark distributor.

Timing was retarded all of the time.
Retarded timing will raise engine temperature.

After that, I don’t recall you having any further problems.

As an old guy from the 50's I can remember most all cars would over heat in the summer if left idling long enough. A/C was a needless & expensive option most folks, so the window were already down. There was fewer traffic jam and road construction. We would just shut the car off if stopped. Today were spoiled and must have the a/c and other stuff when sitting. How many here can remember our dads dumping the radiator ever spring to remove the alcohol and run tap water in the summer. Sometimes we just can't have it all.   That's just my view. time to go too work.

Gaba wrote:

Here is what it comes down to for the electric vs mechanical fan.. I see mechanical fans being used in diesel trucks and such still so I don’t agree they aren’t being used but 

That's kind of true, but here's the whole story: While it is not a 100% electric, the fan in my '06 F250 Diesel has a clutch fan that is activated electronically.  It took over 200k miles, but that clutch failed and needed to be replaced.  This intermediate step is 100% cost driven.  The electric fans required to move the CFM required would be considerably more costly than the hybrid system they are using.  There are aftermarket offerings which I know a couple guys are running over on the thedieselsite.com with zero issues.  Those setups are over $600 though.  The OEM fan with clutch is only $300 (and that's my price, so my bet is it cost Ford more like $150).  We'll see as the Diesel HP wars continue to be waged if this lasts.

Also, that truck had an aluminum radiator from the factory, and yes it had plastic end tanks, and yes I've replaced it already. 

Last edited by TKOPerformance (6/06/2020 9:28 AM)

Stevo wrote:

I have yet to hear a good story involving an electric fan and alloy radiator on a classic.

What's a good story? How long does something have to last to be a success? Everything mechanical and electrical has a life and will eventually fail. I've got 20k miles on an aluminum 2 row radiator with dual fans that works just fine. Most guys post problems or failures on car forums.

Bearing Bob wrote:

Stevo wrote:

I have yet to hear a good story involving an electric fan and alloy radiator on a classic.

What's a good story? How long does something have to last to be a success? Everything mechanical and electrical has a life and will eventually fail. I've got 20k miles on an aluminum 2 row radiator with dual fans that works just fine. Most guys post problems or failures on car forums.

 
On an other high traffic Mustang web site a proven combo is of a 24 inch aluminum rad with a Contour fan set up. It has worked from 289ci to 429,s.
If this set up does not work on your engine my guess is you have other issues that cause overheating.
Champion rad; less than 300$ Just about any place.
Contour fan ; 100$ on Rock auto, maybe less at a pick and pull.

TKOPerformance wrote:

Stevo wrote:

This may be met with some division, but I am yet to hear a good story involving an alloy radiator and electric fans set up on an old classic.
In my experience and from what I have read over the years, a good old copper/brass radiator with a mechanical fan is the way to go. This is what I have had on my car since I owned it (17 years). A year or so ago I had some overheating occur in the peak of summer, but that was quickly resolved with a proper radiator flush at a shop. For extra measure, I installed a 5-blade fan. The only other thing I might consider doing is fitting a fluid clutch type fan, but that is about it.
With the electric fans, these can actually block air flow...
 

Copper/brass radiators are dated technology that simply do not work as well as aluminum.  There are some benefits to them, but only as it pertains to the ability to have them recored, and more easily modified.  Aluminum rejects heat better than copper/brass, and much, much better than lead (the solder used to hold them together).  Aluminum radiators also have significantly more surface area due to the way the fins/tubes are arranged.  No vehicle has used a copper/brass radiator from the factory in over 20 years.  All new vehicles run aluminum radiators to save weight and so the engine can run hotter without fear of overheating.  Where new vehicles are lacking is that they use plastic end tanked aluminum radiators that eventually fail at the epoxy joint between the end tank and core.  An aftermarket, fully welded radiator does not have this problem. 

As for electric fans, the truth is that people are going to claim that whatever they are running that works for them is superior.  I'll put out there than no new vehicle has a mechanical fan.  I'll also add that the idea of them being more reliable can be debated based on several posts right here where fan clutches have failed, etc.  I remain convinced that the reason people shy away from electric fans is bad experience with bad electric fans.  An OE or OE quality electric fan is not going to fail.  I have four vehicles with them combining over 500k miles without a single issue.  If the fan is up to snuff then the wiring is often suspect, as electrical is an area where most hobbyists and even pro mechanics are weak in terms of knowledge.  A properly built fan control should also never have a problem.

We take cooling for granted in new vehicles.  When was the last time anyone was worried their new car or truck would overheat?  Its a problem that has simply been solved.  So if its good enough to achieve those results on new vehicles its good enough to solve the problem on older vehicles.  Thinking otherwise is frankly a syllogism. 

My nephew popped the hood on his new 2018 ram Hemi truck and I was surprised to see a clutch fan.

I'm not surprised to see clutch fans on new trucks.  Its all cost driven.  If 3,000cfm is great cooling for a car you could need 12,000 cfm for a truck, and here's why:

Cars are easy to keep cool.  Cars operate at +/- the same vehicle weight most of the time.  Trucks can vary widely, because they are all designed to tow.  Cooling systems are designed with max tow load up a steep grade in extreme heat in mind.  The system needs to be able to keep everything cool under those conditions.  This means the systems are total overkill for the way most people will use the truck.  My '06 250 has a cooling system that holds 7 gallons of coolant.  It has a trans cooler that's 18" square.  It has a PS cooler that's 4"x1.5"x18".  When the fan comes on, which is rare, it sounds like there's a jet engine under the hood.  The way I use the truck most of time the fan never comes on.  The t-stat only opens in the summer (192 degree t-stat, normal operating temp is about 180).

Now, were I to tow a backhoe laden trailer up a hill I'd be glad I had all that overkill.  Driving around the truck weighs let's say 8,000lbs, but with a max load it could be pushing 30,000lbs.  The electric fans required to do the job the clutch fan does would just be too expensive, and the clutch fans work.  Car companies really only tend to innovate to gain competitive advantage or to meet emissions.  There isn't enough competitive advantage to merit costly electric fans, and they're meeting emissions.  It will be interesting to see how long those things remain constant. 

Bearing Bob wrote:

My memory ain't so good, but didn't they start using electric fans when transverse engines got popular? Fitting all the pieces into the package also plays a big part on cars.

Not sure, though it makes sense.  I can say that manufacturers all switched at different times.  My '86 IROC has an electric fan, but the Mustang didn't get electric fans until '94. 

I've had issues with overheating in my 67 289 since I bought it. I tried a new radiator but it didn't make any differance. An aluminum 20" radiator helped a lot but still low speed travel caused overheating. I installed a electric fan in front of the radiator wired to come on at 203 and off at 185. This actually worked really good for many years. But, I didn't like the look of that fan or the sound. Tried an aluminum shroud with a 16" electric fan but the fan motor that would fit would not flow enough air. My last mod has worked flawlessly for a couple of years now. I ended up with a 30% higher flow aluminum waterpump from Jegs, a six blade fan for A/C with a fan clutch, stock shroud and a genuine Motorcraft 192 degree thermostat. I've driven into massive traffic jams in plus 90 degree temps just to prove to myself it works. It runs right at 190 no matter what. Fan is not at all noisy, but really flows a lot of air. Car runs way better at 190 constant temp than it ever did when I couldn't seem to control it.