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So I rectified the Holley 600cfm EXTENDED hot start, smelly exhaust and bad fuel economy.......
I installed a Edelbrock 650 AVS2.
I also gave the soreadbore a whirl, I like it. Cruising is much more efficient and low speeds are snappier.
BUT
Can anyone explain how I went from MASSIVE WHEEL HOP to barely any at all???
Did I lose a nominal amount of power? Is it a Torque thing? How can I counted the power loss. I went with a "larger" carb (Holley was 600 Edel is 650) to try and counter the known and expected 10-15hp power loss, but I'm doubtful(not certain) that 10-15 would translate to Massive Wheel Hop.
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As you prolly know...........wheel hop is when the leaf spring "loads" and then unloads. Making the tire start bouncing up and down. Doubt 10-15 HP would make it go from one extreme to the other.
Cure (shade tree style) Jack the rear tires up off the ground.
With the tires dangling in the air....attach a couple of spring clamps to the FRONT of the leaf spring(front of the axle FORWARD.) Do this on BOTH sides.
Spring clamps construction..... two pieces of flat bar with a hole drilled in both ends. Run a nut and bolt down between the two pieces of flat bar "clamping" the FRONT portion of the leaf spring.
TIGHTEN DOWN!!
This will make the front of the leaf spring very stiff acting as a traction bar...butt not destroy your nice soft ride (that is mainly from the back of the springs)
Stiffer shocks will help too (or just replace the worn out shocks with new ones)
One optional step would be to ALSO remove the factory installed spring clips from the REAR of the leaf springs. This would let the leaves(behind the axle NOT the front) slide more freely when you accelerate gaining more traction.
EZ way is to just buy the spring clamps from Summit.
This should cure your wheel hop.
A famous carb guy once said.........when asked about tuning carburetors....."most carb issues are ignition problems"!
Give it plenty of initial timing and limit it to 34-38*...all in by 2000RPM or so. (12-16* initial may not be too much.)
Advance it until it starts to ping when going up a hill then.......turn it back about two degrees.
The bigger the cam the more initial timing is a good rule-of-thumb.
THEN......adjust the carb!!
6sal6
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THIS is what the clamps look like! I would put two on either side.
6s6
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Thank you Sally,
I actually didn't know that fix for wheel hop, but
The point of my msg wasnt to correct wheel hop! It was to figure out How and Why changing from a 600cfm Holley DP to a 650 Edel AVS2 changed from massive wheel hop (Holley) to almost 0 (Edel).
Did I lose a significant amount of power switching Brands? I was ok losing 10hp, but not 20-30 (just making up numbers to justify the wheel hop variance)
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Doubt it!! Since you said low speeds seemed snappier. IS the AVS like a double pumper Holley? If it had mechanical secondarys you COULD be over carburetoring it?!
ALL new carbs need some tuning to do right.
6sal6
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I could use some wheel hop rite now
Last edited by red351 (6/10/2020 5:35 PM)
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Red351 I don't follow?
Sally I'm not sure if the AVS2 is a double souper style, but as far as I understand edels are mostly Vacuum secondary, but on the bench I did see the Full Throttle position did mechanically start to open the secondaries.
I just implemented your suggestion on the timing. I installed a larger MSD Bushing stop (total vacuum limited to 19) then advanced my initial 4 degrees. I'm parked at 16-17 initial right now.
As for advance springs, I changed from Medium Silver and Blue to Light Silver and Blue-----any suggestions on a 302, performer heads, heavier cam, bored 30over?? Do I ideally want full timing sooner, medium or later?
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Want to sell that Holley?
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I think it's 3 or 4yrs old. Very Little use, everything flows nicely
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Refresh us again!..........Specs on the cam(duration @ 050 & LSA ).........are they stock heads?.........A/T or manual?.......
6sal6
PS........For tuning purposes let's just plug the vacuum advance off for now. Take the vacuum part totally out of the equation for now.
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Sally take note of msg #7. The last paragraph I describe the engine the best I can. Unfortunately I do not have the build sheet yet, and possibly ever.
I do have an update which is also a question.
After following your lead on timing, the car does run awesomely, except I noticed PINGING ONLY when the Gear is not matched with the speed/RPM. For example 3rd gear going 20mph and half throttle or greater there is pinging. Is this Normal? If not, can it be rectified by changing the springs in my MSD?
When driving in first, no matter what the speed, no pinging, second the same, and so on, only when in a higher gear and lower speed/rpm
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If its pinging.....turn the distributor back a couple degrees. Ex........if its 18* initial.....turn it back to 16* initial. Sometimes just two degrees make a nice difference. BTW.............you ARE using Hi-test gasoline, right?!
You COULD..... just shift gears accordingly to keep it out of the "pinging zone"!
Don't lug the engine in 3rd or 4th gear. After all...... with the cam change/carb change/ head change/ignition change.........you my friend are operating a high-performance 'machine' not an ordinary CAR made for the masses/old ladies,school teachers,preachers etc. Sooo drive accordingly!!
The answer to your previous question...........YES!! Most certainly.
With those heads you prolly want 32-34 degrees of total timing all in by 2000-2500 RPM. Without a timing tape on the harmonic balancer & a tachometer......you're just 'guessing' at your timing tune-up.
Try the lightest springs MSD supplys...Adjust it to the above specs and fine tune the air bleeds on your Eddie carb then....go drive it!! Feel good? Come back and turn the timing up to 35-37* and do the same thing. Better?....Worse(er)?
Just gotta "take-it-out-and-play-with-it" until it runs its best and gives you 'face cramp' from smiling so big.
6sal6
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That's the nature of a Manual transmission. You need to not lug the engine. It is very hard on it.
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Perfect, ok so "Lugging" the engine and getting pinging while going 20mph in 3rd or 4th is "normal". I never drive it like that, was just an observation.
So humour me folks, if im in 1st and matting it (wot) no pinging, and second, and 3rd ect......no pinging, should I try advancing further?
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Sure! Let us know if it 'feels stronger'. IF it ain't pinging....I doubt your hurting it.
(Do you know what your total timing is)?
6s6
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