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4/06/2020 1:34 PM  #1


When you can't decide between running EFI and a Carburetor


No this is not a joke, this is something I threw together for use on my engine run stand.  It allows me to fire up an EFI engine without having to hook up all the EFI electronics


I machined a 1" open bore carb spacer to mount on to an explorer 5.0 elbow



If it isn't broken...modify it anyway! http://www.DazeCars.com https://galaxieforum.boardhost.com
 

4/06/2020 3:11 PM  #2


Re: When you can't decide between running EFI and a Carburetor

That's pretty good thinking, Day.  But, I suspect you will have a lot of air/fuel separation by the time the mixture get to the port. 
Let us know how that works.

BB1


"you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
 

4/06/2020 4:46 PM  #3


Re: When you can't decide between running EFI and a Carburetor

Bullet Bob wrote:

I suspect you will have a lot of air/fuel separation by the time the mixture get to the port. 

Yes that is a possibility, but I am guessing it shouldn't be any worse than the old school cross ram setup.  Will keep you posted.


 


If it isn't broken...modify it anyway! http://www.DazeCars.com https://galaxieforum.boardhost.com
     Thread Starter
 

4/06/2020 5:13 PM  #4


Re: When you can't decide between running EFI and a Carburetor

While I appreciate your engineering my thoughts simply put are: kill it before it grows. 

 

4/06/2020 6:08 PM  #5


Re: When you can't decide between running EFI and a Carburetor

Look pretty kwel on a rat rod!
6sal5


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

4/07/2020 10:57 AM  #6


Re: When you can't decide between running EFI and a Carburetor

Daze...I bet it’ll work just fine.
Offy’s four barrel intake for 300 cid is similar.

The efi intake is designed better if you look at the intake design.
After the carb, air travels to the common plenum ( part above valve  covers).
This section sees vacuum from all 8 cylinders.
Then there is a short section from the plenum to each cylinder.

That’s cool to adapt that for your test stand and then you don’t have to disassemble after testing.
I like that idea.
Is that why you made it?

The only suggestion I have is to blend the elbow to the carb base adapter.
Or make a drop in adapter to smooth the transition to elbow.

Last edited by Nos681 (4/07/2020 11:04 AM)

 

4/07/2020 11:24 AM  #7


Re: When you can't decide between running EFI and a Carburetor

Always wondered how that would work with a Weber carb bolted straight out the side.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

4/07/2020 12:16 PM  #8


Re: When you can't decide between running EFI and a Carburetor

MS wrote:

Always wondered how that would work with a Weber carb bolted straight out the side.

 
Yeah Steve,  a Weber side draft or even those funky SU’s, although one might not be enough cfm.


Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
 

4/07/2020 12:54 PM  #9


Re: When you can't decide between running EFI and a Carburetor

You might have to go hoodless for awhile!

 

4/07/2020 1:20 PM  #10


Re: When you can't decide between running EFI and a Carburetor

Make a shaker hood😁

 

4/07/2020 4:04 PM  #11


Re: When you can't decide between running EFI and a Carburetor

Toss the upper intake and make an adapter/ small plenum for the lower intake that accepts three Strombergs.  Now that's retro!

 

4/07/2020 4:10 PM  #12


Re: When you can't decide between running EFI and a Carburetor

TKOPerformance wrote:

Toss the upper intake and make an adapter/ small plenum for the lower intake that accepts three Strombergs.  Now that's retro!

 
Now that is a novel idea. It certainly arouses my curiosity.


Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
 

4/07/2020 7:05 PM  #13


Re: When you can't decide between running EFI and a Carburetor

Four two barrels with some twisty-turny riser tubes.  Cool!


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

4/08/2020 5:31 AM  #14


Re: When you can't decide between running EFI and a Carburetor

Rudi wrote:

TKOPerformance wrote:

Toss the upper intake and make an adapter/ small plenum for the lower intake that accepts three Strombergs.  Now that's retro!

 
Now that is a novel idea. It certainly arouses my curiosity.

I have a stock 5.0 EFI intake on a shelf in my shop...

 

4/08/2020 5:20 PM  #15


Re: When you can't decide between running EFI and a Carburetor

All this made me think of the Trans Am Boss 302 back in 1970 that had an inline four barrel carb.  I guess that one never caught on either.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

4/08/2020 5:56 PM  #16


Re: When you can't decide between running EFI and a Carburetor

TKOPerformance wrote:

Rudi wrote:

TKOPerformance wrote:

Toss the upper intake and make an adapter/ small plenum for the lower intake that accepts three Strombergs.  Now that's retro!

 
Now that is a novel idea. It certainly arouses my curiosity.

I have a stock 5.0 EFI intake on a shelf in my shop...

Yup, me too.  There was a fellow near Corky who went by AT on here a couple of years ago.  He had a stock SD system on his early Mustang running with the TB bolted to a long, relatively shallow plenum that was bolted directly to the lower intake.  Said it ran just fine.


BB1


"you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
 

4/08/2020 10:25 PM  #17


Re: When you can't decide between running EFI and a Carburetor

Nos681 wrote:

Daze...I bet it’ll work just fine.
That’s cool to adapt that for your test stand and then you don’t have to disassemble after testing.
I like that idea.
Is that why you made it?

The only suggestion I have is to blend the elbow to the carb base adapter.
Or make a drop in adapter to smooth the transition to elbow.

Thats exactly what it is for.  I am going with EFI on the 351W and after the intake has been installed I want to make sure everything s running correctly before I begin fighting with the EFI.  As to the blending I thought about that when I made it.  There's not enough material on the elbow to do any blending.  As to the drop in blended piece I was going to do exactly that BUT then I realized I was overthinking it.  IF this was something I was going to be running as a permanent mod and not just for a little testing I would totally make the adapter but I don't think it will be needed for the small amount of run time it will actually see.


If it isn't broken...modify it anyway! http://www.DazeCars.com https://galaxieforum.boardhost.com
     Thread Starter
 

4/09/2020 9:59 AM  #18


Re: When you can't decide between running EFI and a Carburetor

Make or cut a funnel to smooth the transition.
Cheap and simple.

 

6/12/2020 9:32 AM  #19


Re: When you can't decide between running EFI and a Carburetor

UPDATE:

Fired it up yesterday and it worked beautifully!!  In fact that is probably the smoothest idle at cold start I have ever had with a carb.  Now that I have the engine running on the stand I will swap it over to EFI.


If it isn't broken...modify it anyway! http://www.DazeCars.com https://galaxieforum.boardhost.com
     Thread Starter
 

6/12/2020 9:01 PM  #20


Re: When you can't decide between running EFI and a Carburetor

UPDATE 2.0... Epic fail

I got a bit of a surprise today.  I pulled the upper intake to tighten the lower intake bolts and begin putting the terminator X parts on and when I tilted the intake to unplug vacuum lines about 1/4 cup of fuel pored out.  This was a huge surprise because of how well it had run.  Bullet Bob, gets the prize for the correct prediction:

Bullet Bob wrote:

I suspect you will have a lot of air/fuel separation by the time the mixture get to the port. 
BB1

I had run it for about 10-15 minutes yesterday and in that short time that much fuel had pooled up.  I am a little confused though, I was told that running EFI ment my fingers wouldn't stink like fuel  
 


If it isn't broken...modify it anyway! http://www.DazeCars.com https://galaxieforum.boardhost.com
     Thread Starter
 

6/13/2020 9:09 PM  #21


Re: When you can't decide between running EFI and a Carburetor

Daze wrote:

UPDATE 2.0... Epic fail

I got a bit of a surprise today.  I pulled the upper intake to tighten the lower intake bolts and begin putting the terminator X parts on and when I tilted the intake to unplug vacuum lines about 1/4 cup of fuel pored out.  This was a huge surprise because of how well it had run.  Bullet Bob, gets the prize for the correct prediction:

Bullet Bob wrote:

I suspect you will have a lot of air/fuel separation by the time the mixture get to the port. 
BB1

I had run it for about 10-15 minutes yesterday and in that short time that much fuel had pooled up.  I am a little confused though, I was told that running EFI ment my fingers wouldn't stink like fuel  
 

No fuel stink when tweaking the PCM, Day.  No promises for messing with the hardware.

BB1
 


"you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
 

6/14/2020 7:03 AM  #22


Re: When you can't decide between running EFI and a Carburetor

The runners are just too long and not designed for wet flow.  That fuel was falling out of suspension, sticking to the intake walls, running down, and pooling in the plenum.  The air makes a 90 degree bend in that intake, but its a convoluted 90 degrees.  Really, it deadheads, makes a 180 degree turn, then drops down.  That deadhead/180 is your problem.  The mixture is slamming into the wall and the fuel is falling out of suspension.  With just air the air does the same thing, but this creates an area of high pressure in the plenum, which them gets drawn into the lower intake by the low pressure created by the cylinders on the intake stroke. 

Over the years I've heard guys say that air and liquid behave the same, so you can mock up airflow based on the principles of fluid dynamics.  Its simply not true, especially when dealing with an air/fuel mixture, which is not a fluid, nor a gas, but a gas containing an atomized fluid.  Such behavior is not easily predicted based on fluid modeling because of how the fluid part of the mix behaves when confronted with an obstruction. 

 

6/14/2020 7:29 AM  #23


Re: When you can't decide between running EFI and a Carburetor

I’m wondering if any damage is done to the cylinder walls by the raw fuel, might not be good for a new engine.


Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
 

6/14/2020 9:59 AM  #24


Re: When you can't decide between running EFI and a Carburetor

The fuel was in the upper intake in the common chamber?

 

6/15/2020 5:43 AM  #25


Re: When you can't decide between running EFI and a Carburetor

I doubt the fuel that was in the intake ever got to the cylinders, it was just collecting in the intake.  If it was idling okay and the exhaust wasn't pig rich I imagine the bottom end is fine. 

 

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