| ||
Visit MustangSteve's web site to view some of my work and find details for: FYIFORD Contributors' PICTURES - Power Brake Retrofit Kits for 65-66 Stangs - Classic Mustang FAQ's by MustangSteve - How to wire in a Duraspark Ignition - Mustang Ride Height Pictures and Descriptions - Steel Bushings to fit Granada Spindles to Mustang Tie Rods - Visit my EBAY store MustangSteve Performance - How to Install Granada Disc Brakes MustangSteve's Disc Brake Swap Page - FYIFORD Acronyms for guide to all the acronyms used on this page - FYIFORD Important information and upcoming events |
Offline
I have been running R134a for many years and about two years ago I replaced my Old Air Products Sanden type compressor with a genuine Sanden compressor along with all the other stuff. (Expansion valve, dryer, and flushing, etc.) In messing around with my power steering or headers or whatever it was I had to move an AC hose or the compressor out of the way. I don't remember. The hose got loosened and I didn't notice it. Shortly thereafter it wasn't cooling and the compressor started squeeling. I recharged the system and it never has run as good as it originally did with the new Sanden. So as of last week I checked the charge by the pressure gages, 30 on the low and 225 on the hi but only cools to 65ºF and is squealing at cruise. So I need to go through it again....... Question...... Can I put a HI pressure switch and a LO pressure switch in the system? Switches that will fit on the OEM Mustang type hoses and where are they supposed to be located in the system? Are all hose fittings interchangeable? From what I've seen GM has a manifold that both switches go into. Is that right or what is that thing?
Online!
Both high and low pressure switches cannot go in the same line, it frankly makes no sense. The system has a high pressure side and a low pressure side. High pressure gas comes out of the compressor, goes through the condenser where it condenses back into a liquid, which travels through the orifice tube into the evaporator where it becomes a low pressure gas routed through the filter/dryer, and back to the compressor to start the cycle over again. The high pressure switch is typically in the line from the compressor to the condenser. The low pressure switch wold be in the line from the evaporator to the compressor (after the filter/dryer).
I need more info on your gauge readings. What was the ambient temp when taking those readings? Something is off, because at 220 on the high side the low side should be more like 50, at about 80 degrees ambient.
Offline
Did you pull vacuum on the system when you recharged it?
Offline
Based on info I got off the internet it says the gages should read in the neighbor hood of 2 X OAT plus 50 and the LO should be around 30 to 40. The HI was right on the other day when I checked it from a cold start at idle and the LO was too. I went and drove around the big block and the compressor started to squeal so I came home. I tried to put the gages on while it was running and could not do so due to the high pressure. Shut it off and let it cool down for a little bit and then put the gages on and started it up. The high reading went above 500 psi. I haven't run it since. Again I read that if the compressor is putting out over 300 psi that it is considered OK. But the squeal concerns me. I thought I could open it up to look at it and rebuild but I can't find parts for it. Last year I took it to my mech and he flushed it and installed a new expansion valve, dryer, and evaporator temp switch. Till recently it's been OK but started running warmer and warmer. I called CCA to order Hi and LO switches. The only information I got was, after I clean it out and install the new compressor, dryer, and expansion valve was to put exactly 24 ozs. of R134a in the system. Curt then told me to order the switches on line out of the catalog. I don't see any for 1970 Fords. I saw the switches and that manifold thing in the Chevy catalog but I don't know anything about Chevy AC systems. I'm worn out working on the AC system and going through compressors. Granted it's probably all my own doing so when I sabatoge myself I need to have some kind of system protection devices.
Offline
Hey Doug, you should have low pressure switch already. Most times they are located in the drier. I don't remember a high pressure switch in a factory system since the old log looking compressors on the Chevys.
TKO, the typical weather forecast around here, including Doug since he's about 4 hours away, is mid 90's with a 20% chance or rain. It's good for May through late September.
If you want one, add it to the loop. Discharge side of the compressor should be the right place. I would find the switch first. Any idea what the pressure cutout point will be? You might find a shop in the area that makes hoses that can help with a fitting that would splice into your existing hose. Food for thought.
Now about that compressor. When new, mine are fairly quiet. As the system ages, leaks down, and gets recharged, they pick up a ticking sound or something close to it. I run them till they quit, then go through and clean everything up.
Did this new sanden compressor ever cool right? Could it have been bad from the start? I got the store brand from the parts house for our Mazda years ago. It failed while charging the system. The next compressor made it about 6 weeks and failed. I returned it to the parts house and got my money back. Bought a Motorcraft brand from Rockauto after that. Never had another issue.
With the car sitting in the driveway with a fan blowing at the radiator, 250 psi is about what I see when everything gets good and hot. If you are seeing 500 PSI, sounds like the system is plugged somewhere. Do you think the belt is squealing trying to keep up with 500 PSI.
The pressures you show in the first post are in a good range. Was that before the car got up to operating temp? I bet the low pressure side of the system ins't sweating very well either.
Offline
MS --- It was vacuumed when I originally installed this current compressor. I did it for 2 hours. That was the only time it actually worked as it should have after converting it to R134a. Then I accidentally loosened the high pressure hose on the compressor. I didn't vacuum it cause it still had pressure in it but low so I recharged it. After awhile it started squealing. The system was then evacuated and flushed. The dryer, expansion valve, evaporator thermostats was replaced. It was vacuumed and recharged. It only cooled to 50º. We went on the bash and it was so-so and getting warmer and warmer to where it is today.
Bolted --- This car never has had a switch on it. I think I need both the HI and LO switches so when pressureizes like it does now it will cut off and when it runs to low on freon it will cut off. I would like to add a WOT switch to it also so that it will cut off when I might need to pass MS. The compressor is supposed to be good for 6000 RPM. The engine is good for 5500 RPM. The math indicates that I Ok but I think a WOT switch would be good. I have gone through two Sanden type compressors before this real Sanden. I don't know enough experiance with R134a to know how it exactly works compared to what I used to know with R12. I will defiantly look into the Motorcraft compressor but I'll need to protect it from me.
Offline
For my understanding, the difference in the systems for 134 and R12 is the evaporator. The 134 has more tubes.
I have no desire for a WOT switch, the compressor cuts out enough on its own now.
Protect it from you, huh.....that’s funny 😄
Online!
I'm with Bolted on this, I think the system is plugged somewhere. Situations like this I tend to suspect the orifice tube first, but a plugged or partially plugged evaporator is also a possibility.
Here's a link to the guidelines for R134a as far as system pressures vs. ambient temp:
Offline
HudginJ3 wrote:
I have been running R134a for many years and about two years ago I replaced my Old Air Products Sanden type compressor with a genuine Sanden compressor along with all the other stuff. (Expansion valve, dryer, and flushing, etc.) In messing around with my power steering or headers or whatever it was I had to move an AC hose or the compressor out of the way. I don't remember. The hose got loosened and I didn't notice it. Shortly thereafter it wasn't cooling and the compressor started squeeling. I recharged the system and it never has run as good as it originally did with the new Sanden. So as of last week I checked the charge by the pressure gages, 30 on the low and 225 on the hi but only cools to 65ºF and is squealing at cruise. So I need to go through it again....... Question...... Can I put a HI pressure switch and a LO pressure switch in the system? Switches that will fit on the OEM Mustang type hoses and where are they supposed to be located in the system? Are all hose fittings interchangeable? From what I've seen GM has a manifold that both switches go into. Is that right or what is that thing?
Vintage Air makes a trinary pressure switch that goes in the high side line before the condenser that cuts the electrical feed to the compressor clutch to protect the compressor. Typically the switch operates low pressure off at 28psig and on at 29psig and high side off at 454 psig and on at 369 psig. The fitting is plumbed into the line to the condenser.
Offline
I've been looking for parts and doing a little research on the compressor. The Motorcraft compressor intrigues me but I don't find any info on it or any specifications except that they are out there. I looked at Rockauto but just found part numbers. I did find that the condenser has to be replaced and a disc type filter needs to be installed for warranty purposes. I also found that the evaporator that I have and the 134a evaporator are way different.
Offline
Did I read that R 134a need a BIGGER evap...because it just doesn't cool like the old R-12 refrig. did?..........Or did I just dream that?!
6sal6
Online!
R134a definitely needs more surface area than R12. Its common to upgrade to a larger condenser when making the switch, and it would also make sense that in a properly designed system the evaporator would be different as well.
In general I'm not a fan of reman compressors. I've just had too many of them that lasted all of 1-2 years and failed again. I would suggest looking at just rebuilding it yourself. They aren't terribly complicated. Rebuild parts are usually absurdly cheap (like $35 for everything). You'll need to know the specific model, but these guys have rebuild parts:
If you're running R134a, make sure you use the right oil. If the system had R12 in it at one point you need to make sure you either get all the old oil out, or use conversion oil. Personally when changing a system over I will replace the condenser, lines, and at the very least thoroughly flush the evaporator. Then when I rebuild the compressor I start with the right oil for lubrication of the seals, etc. It should be PAG for R134a.
Offline
I got a little time to mess with my AC so I decided to spend (gamble) a little money and start over. I removed the compressor and drained the oil. Point .6 oz. of oil drained out of it. I did all the routine redo stuff and charged it with exactly 24.oz of R134a as per the instructions from the guy at CCA. It didn't fix it. When done the gages read 14 low and 200 high. The vent temp was 60ºF. There was a lot of condensation on the low side hoses but by what definition, I don't know. I think my course has been set. I dread the thought of opening the evaporator box.
Online!
You don't need to open the box the check the evaporator. I've always done it by flushing the evap through the hoses coming through the firewall, then leak testing with vacuum. If its the culprit its not completely plugged. My guess would be it caught some "black death" from the previous compressor failure. You should be able to flush it out.
Offline
Not familiar CCA, but how do they control the heater side. Is it a flip door or a heater hose valve. I would pinch a hose shut to stop the flow to see if that makes a difference on the temp output. Before you such high numbers which says to me that maybe over charge or not enough air flow over the condenser. Either way you have liquid returning to the pump.... You can't compress a liquid.... If the compressor starts to drag on the belts again, spray some water on the condenser. It should drop high side psi immediately. So then you have find out which one it is
Last edited by red351 (7/07/2020 10:09 AM)
Offline
Sorry it's Classic Auto Air the Original Air Group. wwworiginalair.com
I originally was told I didn't need an evaporator but that I did need a condenser for 134. So Installed a new one. Im told that I need a new expansion valve but I can't figure out how the expansion valve gets contaminated based on direction of flow. I'm thinking I could just replace the expansion valve, flush the entire system and recharge it then it would be Ok. I'm wondering where CAA gets their information on the amount of freon to use. It doesn't add up. However to get the gage numbers higher where I'm told they should be it would need close to 36 ozs. If I were to install the bigger evaporator how much freon should it take?
Offline
Well again not familiar with either. AC is a balance of just enough Freon. Freon must enter through the expansion valve as a liquid under pressure to maintain it as a liquid. The lo side psi begins after the valve. It begins turning into a gas, boiling at minus 200 deg. in the evap. The balance is to control the boil off in the evap. to where it is just mostly a gas JUST as its leaving the evap. Any changes in hose length or diameter or evaporator size throws the balance off. SO NO, I would NEVER take anybody word as 36 oz. is about right.
ADD 1 can to start and a little more in steps to where things start to work and to where you will find that balance.
There's a lot of bad info around, as you must do this if you are going to do that. Well I did run 134a in both cars that have factory a/c. for a good # of years, and they worked fine accept the York compressors are noisy and bad belt slap. So I later change the both condensers trying lower the hi side psi. It didn't help much if any. So last year I dumped the 134a and went with dry propane and it only takes 8 to 10 oz. Head pressure 120/130 low side 10/20 just enough to not go into vac. on the hot days. I can get 40/45 out the vents as the air flow increases into the condenser.
Our old R12 roof unit, on the camper now runs on propane. 80degs.in 40/45 out the vents. and BARRY them fancy alum. service ports we cut into the rv a/c unit last yr.leaked worst then if I just drilled a hole in the lines and you can't mix propane with other refrigerants. More bad internet info.
Last edited by red351 (7/08/2020 9:10 AM)
Offline
Rich, I learnt more bout A/C on that visit than I've ever known before.
Thanks.
Offline
50vert wrote:
Rich, I learnt more bout A/C on that visit than I've ever known before.
Thanks.
Thank you.. We really missed you both since we both have so much in common and living so far apart. It is a small world......
Offline
Is there a modern day replacement for the black tar that wraps around the expansion valve? I've never liked that goo.
Offline
I just use the 3M black dum-dum strips. It comes off clean when needed.
REMEMBER!!! When posting a question about your Mustang or other Ford on this forum, BE SURE to tell us what it is, what year, engine, etc so we have enough information to go on. |