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8/25/2020 2:24 AM  #1


Strange change in oil pressure 351c

Engine 351c with melling stock pump. From the beginning 4 years since rebuilt I always had cold(idle) 1,5 bar oil pressure and the oil pressure  climbed when revving engine. Also warmed up I would have oil pressure at idle around 1.5 bar. The oil pressure gauge is like following the rpm of the engine.  Max is around 5-6 bar. Yesterday at cold start I suddenly have 4 bar at idle cold start. Nothing is changed. I pulled the oil pressure sensor out and tested with pressure on the bench and its accurate. Everything else is the same in the car/engine. Could something in the oil pump be stuck, and suddenly released so it started to work as it should ? Could this be a filter problem ?
1 bar = 14,5 psi Oil looks good only had like 2000 km since oil filter change.

Last edited by Mach173 (8/25/2020 2:25 AM)

 

8/25/2020 4:09 AM  #2


Re: Strange change in oil pressure 351c

Is the viscosity of the oil correct?
What ambient temperature was there when at idle the pressure reached 4 Barg ?.
If something was in the circuit it will now be in the filter. First of all I would change the oil filter.
Ciao. Marco
 

 

8/25/2020 4:28 AM  #3


Re: Strange change in oil pressure 351c

Marco wrote:

Is the viscosity of the oil correct?
What ambient temperature was there when at idle the pressure reached 4 Barg ?.
If something was in the circuit it will now be in the filter. First of all I would change the oil filter.
Ciao. Marco
 

Ambient temp 25 celcius, it reached 4 bar directly. Its the correct oil yes.

Ciao

     Thread Starter
 

8/25/2020 5:30 AM  #4


Re: Strange change in oil pressure 351c

To clarify, 1 bar is equal to 14.5psi, 4 bar is equal to 58psi, 5 bar is 72 psi, 6 bar is 87psi.

There are several things that could cause this.  The fact that the oil pressure just keeps climbing to me would indicate the strong possibility that the pressure relief valve in the pump is stuck.

A plugged filter is another possibility.

 

8/25/2020 7:07 AM  #5


Re: Strange change in oil pressure 351c

Changed the oil and filter, started the engine. 5 bar at idle cold. Must be something with the pump. Is it safe to drive ? 

     Thread Starter
 

8/25/2020 7:11 AM  #6


Re: Strange change in oil pressure 351c

New oil, new filter.
Wait the warm up of the engine and check the pressure.

 

8/25/2020 8:03 AM  #7


Re: Strange change in oil pressure 351c

Your historical experience of 1.5 bars at idle, whether the engine is cold or hot, doesn't seem correct. When cold, pressure should be higher and then as the oil comes up to temp, pressure should drop.

Does the pressure drop after it warms up or does it stay pegged at 5 bars even after it is warmed up?  If your pressure now drops after it warms up, I would say it is behaving correctly, higher pressure when cold and lower pressure when hot.

 

8/25/2020 10:49 AM  #8


Re: Strange change in oil pressure 351c

Okay
I warmed up to 80 degrees celcius, and oil pressure was at 3 bar in Drive 850 rpm. In neutral 1050 rpm it went up to 4.bar . Revving it went higher. I did not have the time to let it fully warm up. Il take it for a spinn tomorrow. Thanks.
 

     Thread Starter
 

8/25/2020 12:13 PM  #9


Re: Strange change in oil pressure 351c

I would be tempted to pull the oil pump and verify it's condition, it might be just me but 5-6 bar seems to high. Also depending on your pump it might have a + 20 pound relief spring in it that Melling offered.
  I have a Melling  M68 oil pump in  my 331 and it is fairly constant at idle and beyond at 55 psi cold and 50 when up to temp regardless of when I'm using 10w30, 10w40 or 10w50

Last edited by Rudi (8/25/2020 12:19 PM)


Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
 

8/25/2020 7:52 PM  #10


Re: Strange change in oil pressure 351c

I "discovered" something new when my old oil pressure sending unit took-a-dump. The one I replaced it with had a smaller orifice and gave me a higher reading on my oil pressure gauge. (Make note to self...... use small hole sender when selling car,  makes the oil pressure read higher!)
Also noted that an adjustable instrument voltage regulator, located on the back of the instrument panel can be tweaked to make the oil pressure gauge read higher OR lower!
So what's the lesson???.......we can make the gauges read any way we want them to!
IF you have oil pressure.............enjoy the ride....period!
6sally6

Last edited by 6sally6 (8/25/2020 8:01 PM)


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

8/25/2020 11:13 PM  #11


Re: Strange change in oil pressure 351c

Well thanks guys
Its only a month and a half left of the season on Sweden. Then Im going stroker so I will tear the 351c apart.

     Thread Starter
 

8/26/2020 5:31 AM  #12


Re: Strange change in oil pressure 351c

Pressure that high would concern me.  Keep in mind that the oil pump is drive by a driveshaft that's fairly flimsy, unless you have an aftermarket one.  I've seen those stock driveshafts twisted and broken.  The higher the pressure the more load you're putting on it.

My bet would be on a stuck pressure regulator.  I would look into it.  I know the engine is coming out and coming apart, but it needs to be usable to do that.  If it has a catastrophic failure that isn't going to happen.  Then you're back to looking for super hard to find parts in Sweden.  Just my S0.02.

 

8/26/2020 8:29 AM  #13


Re: Strange change in oil pressure 351c

Normally, my reply would be like 6sally6.   If it has pressure, enjoy it. 

But, the recent trouble Bullet Bob went through with trashed bearings make me a bit more conservative.  I think I would change the oil pump and dissect the filter Looking for debris just to be sure.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

8/26/2020 8:47 AM  #14


Re: Strange change in oil pressure 351c

MS wrote:

Normally, my reply would be like 6sally6.   If it has pressure, enjoy it. 

But, the recent trouble Bullet Bob went through with trashed bearings make me a bit more conservative.  I think I would change the oil pump and dissect the filter Looking for debris just to be sure.

Good idea!  Butt..........most of the time, that's sorta shutting the barn door after the horse is out.
  Old mechanic told me once, "that oil pressure light and most gauges is just  the engines way of tell'in you something terrible JUST happened and you will be stopping soon to spend a lot of money."
6s6
 

Last edited by 6sally6 (8/26/2020 8:51 AM)


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

8/26/2020 9:30 AM  #15


Re: Strange change in oil pressure 351c

When I rebuilt I put in ARP oilpump driveshaft. Nothing in the oil or filter when I changed yesterday. Tomorrow Il have time for a drive. What pump and oilpan would you suggest when going to a 393 or 408 stroker ?

     Thread Starter
 

8/26/2020 9:33 PM  #16


Re: Strange change in oil pressure 351c

Just info:  After checking everything possible and talking to my engine machinist and a lot of other folks I'm going to go with what the engine guy says.  He builds a lot of racing and boat engines and has seen a lot.  After looking at the mains...all five were junk... and asking about how I built the engine:  No align hone, no balance, he thinks the crank was jumping around and that it was probably on the edge when I did my six or seven second gear "tuning pulls" which pushed it over the edge.
The more I think about it the more I'm sure I caused the problem by balancing the pistons and rods myself but not having the entire rotating assembly balanced. 

Best advice:  DO NOT CHEAP-OUT.

BB1
 


"you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
 

8/26/2020 9:55 PM  #17


Re: Strange change in oil pressure 351c

and so many  folks claim..........."If you're NOT racing it, there's no need to balance  a  street engine"........  the 'factory balance' is fine for non-racing engines.......for revs under 6000rpm a balanced assembly is a waste of money.......We've all heard it. 
We assembly the engine using  as much care and precision as we can........we buy the best stuff we can afford......we measure and "adjust"(blueprint)  all the pieces we can.......so why not spend the extra 150/200 bucks and get it all balanced ?
Sometimes........even all this ain't good enough!
Fun........ain't it?!!!
6sally6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

8/27/2020 4:56 AM  #18


Re: Strange change in oil pressure 351c

Yep, those folks are dead wrong.  I balance everything, even a stock rebuild.  Why?  Its all of $150.  Very small price to pay to be sure its right.  Spending the money to internally balance an engine that wasn't internally balanced from the factory is the waste of money, unless you're racing and need every advantage.  I've yet to see an engine that was properly balanced where the machine shop didn't move some weight around.  That tells me all I need to know. 

As for oil pump, Melling standard volume, standard pressure.  Oil pan wise, it really depends on the chassis more than anything.  Also, how you're going to use the car.  Milodon makes nice street pans.  Canton makes nice street/strip pans that also work well in road course applications. 

 

8/27/2020 5:56 AM  #19


Re: Strange change in oil pressure 351c

Normally one of the first things I have done under these conditions (after checking the obvious things like oil level, filter, etc.) is to temporarily install a mechanical gauge to verify that your electrical sender and gauges are telling the truth.  


Founding Member of the Perpetually Bewildered Society
 

8/27/2020 6:18 AM  #20


Re: Strange change in oil pressure 351c

John Ha wrote:

Normally one of the first things I have done under these conditions (after checking the obvious things like oil level, filter, etc.) is to temporarily install a mechanical gauge to verify that your electrical sender and gauges are telling the truth.  

I took the electrical sensor out and pressure tested it with gauge, its spot on.

     Thread Starter
 

8/27/2020 9:17 AM  #21


Re: Strange change in oil pressure 351c

Just a thought. 
If a chunk of RTV or other trash made its way into a crank journal passage, it would block the flow of oil to the bearing while at the same time increasing the gauge pressure reading because less oil is flowing past the blockage.  If that were the case, some disassembly would be required to fix the problem.
Not sure how you would diagnose this without a tear-down.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

8/27/2020 9:37 AM  #22


Re: Strange change in oil pressure 351c

I think MS is on to something, I've seen a lot of RTV inside of engines and diffs due to some people putting way to much RTV cuz they don't want a leak, also seen it in a transfer cases, so much RTV and it still leaked. then seeing the bearings with chunks of RTV in them, oh the disrtuction.


65 coupe, 351w, c4, power disk brakes, power r&p, vintage air.
 

8/27/2020 11:22 PM  #23


Re: Strange change in oil pressure 351c

Took the car for drive last night, runs normal. oil pressure was about 2 bar on idle. Just a month left of the season, them its tear down time.

     Thread Starter
 

8/28/2020 8:41 PM  #24


Re: Strange change in oil pressure 351c

With the Cleveland engine..........oiling is NOT as bullet proof as the Windsor engines. (that's what "they-say")  Research the different modifications to the oiling system to make the Cleveland system bullet-proof!
"I-have-read".......there's more to it than a bigger oil pump, there are other changes to help the engine live.
Since you are putting in a stroker crank A LOT more 'stuff' is gonna be happening inside your engine.
Give us the 'specs' on your engine build!! (tell me all about the camshaft specs!!)
Some-of-us are kinda."simple"!!! ..We need pitcherz!!!
6sally6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

8/28/2020 9:10 PM  #25


Re: Strange change in oil pressure 351c

It has a picture now Sal.


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
 

Board footera


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