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11/05/2020 3:22 PM  #26


Re: Power enhancement options

If you can swing it you might want to look into a newer F-150. I have a 2nd gen coyote 5.0 (2016) 385 hp
355 rear gears. It has a towing mode and a sport mode when in sport mode it's scary fast at high speed.
My son had the same truck with a  308 rear gears (I think) both 4x4, his truck was a dog, compared to 
mine. When you invest a lot of money into the engine, a lot of times it's hard to get that money back. Then
people think you beat the truck with all that engine work. If your going to keep the truck a long time ,it may 
worth your while to build it up. If your not going to keep it a long time, it may better to look for a newer
truck. Good luck what ever path you take!   mustang stu

 

11/06/2020 6:23 AM  #27


Re: Power enhancement options

That's not a bad point.  Modified vehicles typically bring less money at sale.  Sell now while the value is the highest it will likely ever be and move on to something that does what you need without the need to modify. 

 

11/06/2020 8:37 AM  #28


Re: Power enhancement options

I also have an F-150 with the Coyote engine and 3.55 gears.   It is a great engine and has all the power I need for my non-commercial towing needs. I have towed cars and boats for several thousand miles without issue. And when I'm not towing anything, I can get 20-21mpg on the highway if I keep my foot out of it and get about 17.5mpg in mixed driving.

My truck also has the 36 gal tank which is great for long trips. When you top it off, range is about 600 miles.

Last edited by Chaplin (11/06/2020 8:38 AM)

 

11/06/2020 10:44 AM  #29


Re: Power enhancement options

Just as a side note, the EcoBoost V6 has a higer tow capacity than the 5.0. When I was looking at new trucks that made me scratch my head. But mine has a 10,000# capacity, otherwise I would have gone 5.0.

And definitely get the tow package with bigger fuel tank among other things. 

 

11/06/2020 11:34 AM  #30


Re: Power enhancement options

I also have a F 150 with the coyote motor. I live on the Oregon coast and bought a new travel trailer in Iowa. I drove from Oregon to Iowa on 80 averaged 22 mpg going running 75 to 80 (love those speed limits in Utah and Wyoming). Averaged 12.5 from Iowa to Oregon pulling the trailer.

 

11/06/2020 11:41 AM  #31


Re: Power enhancement options

My bro lives and works out of Whitehorse and Juneau,AK. He has a 2011 F150 with the EcoBoost V6. On his drive to Hains to catch the ferry to Juneau he lost his engine on the top of the mountain road. It was 20 below and real windy so he had to continue driving to get to Hains. He could not check the truck till he got to Juneau and found the engine full of metal shavings. The shop closed it back up and pushed it out the door. Told him he needs a new engine. It has 70K on it. The turbo V6 doesn't sound very reassuring to me and at this point neither does putting a turbo on the 4.6. This same sort of thing happens to airplanes as well so it's not as though I don't know the risks. My experience with diesels seem to have better luck with turbos. I tend to keep vehicles 12 to 15 years and buy used 2 to 3 years. With all the talk about lack of wear on modern engines got me to thinking putting a turbo on the 4.6 might be the least expensive way to go for the interim. 


70, ragtop 351W/416 stroker Edel Performer heads w pro flow 4, Comp roller 35-421-8. T5
     Thread Starter
 

11/06/2020 12:41 PM  #32


Re: Power enhancement options

No doubt we all have anecdotes about issues with pretty much anything. My buddy had to take his 2018 F-150 5.0 back for a full engine swap due to excessive oil consumption. So if you're buying used beware.

I definitely stayed away from the new Ecoboost platform when it came out as there's always issues with early adoption of new platforms. That's one reason I never considered the baby diesel that just became available in the F-150's. Maybe in a few years, but no way 1st or 2nd year...

If you install the turbo on your 4.6 what will you use to tune it? You're probably looking at a fuel system upgrade as well, just FYI.

 

11/07/2020 6:30 AM  #33


Re: Power enhancement options

For any Ford tuning SCT is the preferred platform.

I don't know how the manufacturers come up with tow ratings, but I can tell you I wouldn't put a lot of stock in them.  Chevy/GM trucks with the 6.2 Diesel had close to the same tow rating as the first gen Dodge Cummins trucks that were their contemporaries.  Anyone who'd driven and towed with both will tell you the 6.2 was a toilet, and the Cummins was the sign of the future.  I think a lot of it has to do with the rear axle's ability to carry weight and what rear suspension they have in the truck.  The engine seems to make less difference to them. 

 

11/07/2020 11:45 AM  #34


Re: Power enhancement options

TKOPerformance wrote:

For any Ford tuning SCT is the preferred platform.

I don't know how the manufacturers come up with tow ratings, but I can tell you I wouldn't put a lot of stock in them.  Chevy/GM trucks with the 6.2 Diesel had close to the same tow rating as the first gen Dodge Cummins trucks that were their contemporaries.  Anyone who'd driven and towed with both will tell you the 6.2 was a toilet, and the Cummins was the sign of the future.  I think a lot of it has to do with the rear axle's ability to carry weight and what rear suspension they have in the truck.  The engine seems to make less difference to them. 

As a former SCT dealer I can tell you they are not what they were. And honestly unless he's tuning it himself it's going to be the preference of the shop that he takes it to.

That's an interesting statement, not trusting the factory tow rating. So what do I do? Go out and buy a couple trucks and test myself?

 

11/07/2020 8:38 PM  #35


Re: Power enhancement options

Well it's good to read the discussion going on here. I have no experiance in doing something like tunning and have no idea how to go about it. I can't even get my carbureted Mustang to run the way it should. When putting a turbo kit on an airplane you just do it. There is no tunning, but then it is called turbo normalized. you never run the manifold pressure above 30 inches. That's the same as running it at sea level all the way up to altitude. After awhile you run out of of turbo but your still above the weather, crusing faster, and using less fuel. I was thinking that would happen with the F150. I'm kinda thinking the 4.6 isn't strong enough to be boosted over seal level pressure (30 in MAP).


70, ragtop 351W/416 stroker Edel Performer heads w pro flow 4, Comp roller 35-421-8. T5
     Thread Starter
 

11/08/2020 6:49 AM  #36


Re: Power enhancement options

Raymond_B wrote:

TKOPerformance wrote:

For any Ford tuning SCT is the preferred platform.

I don't know how the manufacturers come up with tow ratings, but I can tell you I wouldn't put a lot of stock in them.  Chevy/GM trucks with the 6.2 Diesel had close to the same tow rating as the first gen Dodge Cummins trucks that were their contemporaries.  Anyone who'd driven and towed with both will tell you the 6.2 was a toilet, and the Cummins was the sign of the future.  I think a lot of it has to do with the rear axle's ability to carry weight and what rear suspension they have in the truck.  The engine seems to make less difference to them. 

As a former SCT dealer I can tell you they are not what they were. And honestly unless he's tuning it himself it's going to be the preference of the shop that he takes it to.

That's an interesting statement, not trusting the factory tow rating. So what do I do? Go out and buy a couple trucks and test myself?

Every shop in my area uses SCT to tune, primarily because they make it easy for tuners to use their system.  So yeah, you're going to use whatever your tuner uses, but I'd be pretty surprised if it wasn't SCT. 

On tow rating you talk to people that tow for a living and see what they think.  The rated weight means that the vehicle will physically move that weight without putting anything at risk of damage.  There's a BIG difference between that and towing comfortably, especially if your trips involve steep hills, etc. 

 

11/08/2020 7:14 AM  #37


Re: Power enhancement options

HudginJ3 wrote:

Well it's good to read the discussion going on here. I have no experiance in doing something like tunning and have no idea how to go about it. I can't even get my carbureted Mustang to run the way it should. When putting a turbo kit on an airplane you just do it. There is no tunning, but then it is called turbo normalized. you never run the manifold pressure above 30 inches. That's the same as running it at sea level all the way up to altitude. After awhile you run out of of turbo but your still above the weather, crusing faster, and using less fuel. I was thinking that would happen with the F150. I'm kinda thinking the 4.6 isn't strong enough to be boosted over seal level pressure (30 in MAP).

You have to be really, really careful talking about boost in terms of measured pressure.  Boost pressure as measured in bar, psi, etc. is not an actual measure of what the turbo is doing to the engine.  People always say things like "how much boost do you run?", but that's a meaningless standard.  Here's why: pressure is largely a measure of restriction.  If I take a turbo engine and pull all the intake and exhaust plumbing and port, polish, smooth, and unrestrict flow the boost pressure as measured in psi, etc. will go way down at all points except max pressure (because that's determined by the wastegate), yet the engine will make more power.  The only way to compare boost referenced in psi, etc. is on the same engine with the same turbo.  If you say change the wastegate setting to allow 20psi instead of 15 the engine may make more power (if the turbo hasn't come up against the wall of adibiatic efficiency, unlikely with a small change on a stock setup).  But if you for instance swap turbos you may find a larger turbo doesn't make as much pressure, but makes more power, though spool will take longer and you'll lose low end.  The problem is that what is really changing is mass flow, but that's very hard to measure and people don't understand it.  What's happening isn't so much that the intake tract is being pressurized, as that the turbo is simply allowing that system to move more air than it could under the vacuum created on the piston's downstroke.  Pressure is a byproduct, not the cause.  The pressure is created because you have increased the volume of air.  The result is an increase in the differential between the cylinder and the intake track allowing more air to enter the cylinder.  What is measured in the intake as far as pressure goes in psi, etc. is really just a measure of how much restriction is exerted on that additional air by the space its forced to flow through.  This is why the same turbo on two radically different engines may read 100psi on one an 30 on the other.  Its not moving any more or less air; its just doing it against different degrees of restriction. 

This is why kits are the way to go, because there's no guesswork involved.  The company selling the kit has already done all the homework in terms of fueling, ignition, etc. and know the engine will be safe. 

The 4.6 will live through the boost if you don't get crazy.  Its the only way that engine ever made any really power to be honest.  Thousands of Mustangs have blowers on 4.6s without any problems.  The thing I worry about is everything else (trans, etc.).

 

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