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11/10/2020 5:24 PM  #1


68 302 modded Fully Restored STARTS DRY (NO FUEL)

So Ive been noticing some funky starts lately........Even Hot starts but if she sat for an hour or more in the Warm/Hot weather....But Cold starts have been VERY CHALLENGING....

this morning I wanted to take it to work given the days of driving are counting close to 0......I thought it Flooded, or just assumed rather.  Initially choke closes perfectly, first couple shots 2 or 3 sputters, then nada......
Nothing I did would make it sputter and/or start.

so this evening I checked Speark, the Plugs then the Pump Shot----------Dry!  farting dust.  I poor fuel down, it struggles to start, then runs fine!.......I beat it like a rented mule and it performs!

Whats Everyones Best Guess?

302, non-radical build, heavier cam, Edel Heads, Intake and 650 AVS2-------------Dry Starts!?!?
Keep in Mind, this is Boarding a Show Car (Exterior and Mechanically-----interior a 7ish)

 

11/10/2020 8:19 PM  #2


Re: 68 302 modded Fully Restored STARTS DRY (NO FUEL)

Have you checked output pressure or volume of pump during start?

Filter?
Pick up screen in tank plugged?

Then i would start looking at carb.
Float stuck?

Especially if you have spark.

 

11/11/2020 4:46 AM  #3


Re: 68 302 modded Fully Restored STARTS DRY (NO FUEL)

I have not checked FP cause I do not have a gauge......So I assumed initially the Floats were stuck like you mentioned....I cracked open the Edel and although the Float Level was lower, there was still fuel in the Bowels, enough that the Pump Shot should throw at least 10 to 15 shots, floats didnt appear Stuck Closed, they move freely, but it is difficult for me to imagine them being stuck closes (I did try tapping them at the beginning of my starting issues)....
so I had fired some compressed air through all the fuel systems in the carb, all bubbled or sprayed fuel through them.....after all that immediately after closing the lid and assembling, the pump shot STILL Didnt throw fuel......

Filter could be a problem and the screen in the tank, it is obviously possible but like I said everything is So New, would be odd for them to fail, plus the filter is a Larger Stainless container style......given all this, why does the car run and drive perfectly once, well, running???

     Thread Starter
 

11/11/2020 7:08 AM  #4


Re: 68 302 modded Fully Restored STARTS DRY (NO FUEL)

Choke setting?

 

11/11/2020 9:40 AM  #5


Re: 68 302 modded Fully Restored STARTS DRY (NO FUEL)

I have similar, but not as severe, issue with 'cold' starts.  I believe my issue is that I need a check valve in the fuel line.  I have a Holley 650, double pumper; on cold starts, I pump the gas pedal once to the floor, and another pump about half way.  The engines starts, runs for a few seconds then stumbles a bit so I quickly oscillate the pedal just a bit several times to keep squirting fuel from the accelerator pumps (size 30cc size).  The engine smooths out and runs as it should on the choke. 
Seems to work for me, although I should install a check valve.
BTW - I don't think you'll 10-15 shots from your accelerator pump, from what I understand 3-5 full shots, w/o refills, is all you'll get.
 


65 Fastback, 351W, 5-speed, 4 wheel discs, 9" rear,  R&C Front End.
 

11/11/2020 10:10 AM  #6


Re: 68 302 modded Fully Restored STARTS DRY (NO FUEL)

My guess........accelerator pump nozzle(s) is stopped up.
With a wide blade screw driver...remove the nozzle and run a small wire/drill bit in the holes.
Try soaking the nozzle with  Brakleen (I love that stuff) until you can get a stream/spray out of the nozzles.
How old is the fuel tank?
Filter between the FP and carb?
What type of ignition do you have?  Duraspark?....MSD?....points?.....
6sally6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

11/11/2020 10:26 AM  #7


Re: 68 302 modded Fully Restored STARTS DRY (NO FUEL)

How long since you last started the engine?
It sure seems to me that you had dry bowls.
 


Gary Zilik - Pine Junction, Colorado - 67 Coupe, 289-4V, T5
 

11/11/2020 8:51 PM  #8


Re: 68 302 modded Fully Restored STARTS DRY (NO FUEL)

Everything New 3-4yrs ago.......MSD ignition system (no Box).....squirters squirt when/once engine is running.....it is literally after the car sits for a long period of time.....

Choke is fine once car is running, I cant make this any clearer, everything new/Like new (3-4yrs) and runs great except randomly started having issues due to fuel not being delivered through the carb (both squirters and boosters (which correct me if im wrong, but dont the boosters only work once there is vacuum (car is running)...........

6sally6 wrote:

My guess........accelerator pump nozzle(s) is stopped up.
With a wide blade screw driver...remove the nozzle and run a small wire/drill bit in the holes.
Try soaking the nozzle with Brakleen (I love that stuff) until you can get a stream/spray out of the nozzles.
How old is the fuel tank?
Filter between the FP and carb?
What type of ignition do you have? Duraspark?....MSD?....points?.....
6sally6

 

     Thread Starter
 

11/11/2020 8:56 PM  #9


Re: 68 302 modded Fully Restored STARTS DRY (NO FUEL)

Honestly if its after sitting for a while I just regard that as normal.  The fuel in the float bowl(s) evaporates out the vent(s).  Remember that system is not sealed.

 

11/11/2020 9:51 PM  #10


Re: 68 302 modded Fully Restored STARTS DRY (NO FUEL)

With mine Ihad to crank it about 15 to 30 seconds then pump it twice and it would fire right up. I installed and electric fuel pump with an on off switch for the specific issue of starting it.


70, ragtop 351W/416 stroker Edel Performer heads w pro flow 4, Comp roller 35-421-8. T5
 

11/12/2020 7:02 AM  #11


Re: 68 302 modded Fully Restored STARTS DRY (NO FUEL)

TKO, when I cracked the Lid of the AVS2 it had fuel in it. Much of it did evaporate yes, but the Jets were immersed.
What I noticed was the PUMP Shot was throwing fuel.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't it get supplied from the bowels? 

Let's also keep in mind, once I drop fuel down, or, but some chance the car finds a way to stumble to start, after about 10-15s of rough start, it smoothens out and there is literally nothing wrong.
I'm really baffled by this, you'd think a fuel supply issue would rear it's ugly head during load.

     Thread Starter
 

11/12/2020 10:07 AM  #12


Re: 68 302 modded Fully Restored STARTS DRY (NO FUEL)

Whether it is evaporation, or fuel being drawn back to the fuel tank, a low level in the fuel bowels will not allow the available fuel to be drawn (via vacuum through the throttle body) out of the bowels until the level is retuned to the 'normal' height in the bowels.  I would think evaporation would take some time (weeks, maybe longer?), so my thought would be it is draining back to the fuel tank.  I would think this theory could be impacted by the height of the fuel in the tank. 
Yes, the accelerator pump gets its fuel from the bowels, usually a small hole in the base of the bowel.


65 Fastback, 351W, 5-speed, 4 wheel discs, 9" rear,  R&C Front End.
 

11/12/2020 10:17 AM  #13


Re: 68 302 modded Fully Restored STARTS DRY (NO FUEL)

M1Mustang69 wrote:

Everything New 3-4yrs ago.......MSD ignition system (no Box).....squirters squirt when/once engine is running.....it is literally after the car sits for a long period of time.....
 

This is normal after sitting for a long time. The fuel has evaporated from the bowls to a point where there is not enough fuel to start the engine. A long cranking session followed by a couple of pumps of the skinny pedal should work.

J3 pointed out his use of a electric fuel pump to combat this problem. I only have this problem on the first start of the year, after a winters rest, or if I've pulled the carb to work on it.


Gary Zilik - Pine Junction, Colorado - 67 Coupe, 289-4V, T5
 

11/12/2020 11:06 AM  #14


Re: 68 302 modded Fully Restored STARTS DRY (NO FUEL)

Well.......let me be clear........if there is NO fuel being sprayed from the accel. pump nozzle it is either stopped up or there is not a sufficient amount of fuel in the BOWLS.
With the top off the carb....work the carb linkage and observe if the sprayers are ....spraying. If not fill up the bowls and try it again. If that doesn't make them spray they are plugged up. If they DO spray your fuel is draining/evaporating out of the BOWLS. Check needle and seat valve to see if fuel is leaking by it.
Try a tank full of NON ethyenol gas to see if that helps.
   In order to save the battery in my Mustang, when it has set-up for a week or more I remove the air cleaner and spray inside the  carb with carb cleaner. Engine immediately fires and I keep it running until fuel pump has filled the BOWLS of the carb.
Only takes a minute. From then on it starts just fine.
6sal6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

11/12/2020 4:15 PM  #15


Re: 68 302 modded Fully Restored STARTS DRY (NO FUEL)

Yes, just because there is fuel in the bowl(s) doesn't mean there's enough to get it to start and stay running, especially if the line behind the carb is dry.  I find that for my car it takes about a week for this to happen.  When I drive it every day, or every coupe of days it lights right off, but if it sits for a week or more its not going to want to start without using the accelerator. 

 

Board footera


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