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11/21/2020 7:47 AM  #1


"Designed in the USA"

1966 Mustang Coupe, 5.0 Swap, EFI/MAF, T5z

I'm getting a bit tired of this "designed in the USA" nonsense from manufacturers.  I'm in the market for a 24" in radiator.  I was close to buying a Champion radiator based on the claim that these were 'manufactured in the USA' I saw on a resellers site.  Turns out, these are 'designed in the USA' but made in China.  Now, I'm not saying anything against the quality of these radiators.  Seems they perform as well as any and their bottom floor price point probably is what makes them most attractive, but this BS of acting like sending a design created probably 10 years ago in the USA gives any kind of Made in the USA credentials is crap.  

I work in engineering and manufacturing.  If you didn't build it here, it's not made in the USA, end of story.  I'm not going to say that every component of my ride is red white and blue.  Truth be told, just about everything scott drake and or reproduction is 100% Chinese made.  A lot of it is junk, some of it works well.  I just don't like being mislead.  Spend your money how and where you want.

For the record: I've verified Griffin Radiators, Wizard Cooling, and Dewitts are 100% US made and yes their is a price premium.

If you know of any other brands please pass on.  

 

11/21/2020 7:56 AM  #2


Re: "Designed in the USA"

Good to know.


65 coupe, 351w, c4, power disk brakes, power r&p, vintage air.
 

11/21/2020 8:12 AM  #3


Re: "Designed in the USA"

There's always a price premium for things made in the USA, because our labor costs considerably more than labor costs overseas.  Frankly its a price I pay gladly.  American manufacturing is what led the US from a global nonplayer to the dominant economy on the planet.  Then starting about 1988 we began being fed this nonsense that American manufacturing wasn't necessary anymore.  That America needed to be a nation of college educated engineers, managers, and white collar workers.  If you look at how that's played out for America its objectively been proven to be a crock.  Good paying blue collar jobs with benefits is what built this country, why it thrived from WWII through the mid '80s, and if we want people to have any kind of standard of living its what is needed again.  So long as people prefer cheap over quality its not going to change. 

I live in Delaware, so my vote nationally, and even locally it seems does not matter.  Therefore my only recourse is to vote with my wallet.  I urge all patriots to do the same.

I'll get off my soapbox now.

 

11/21/2020 8:32 AM  #4


Re: "Designed in the USA"

I will gladly spend the premium for something built by my neighbor vs someone overseas. I was raised by my grandparents who were that WWII generation that protected and built this country, that generation was made of stuff that people don’t have anymore.

I would rather rework, refurbish, rebuild an original part than deal with the junk that 90% of the reproduction stuff is.

Looking for Headers for my truck and the USA made brands run $750-1200 and the China made run $250-450, do you really think the China Headers will fit and last. I would rather do it once and forget about it. At the same time helping a neighbor keep a job.

 

11/21/2020 8:45 AM  #5


Re: "Designed in the USA"

I always fine it hard to believe that our labor costs can make that big of a difference in the final retail price of MADE IN THE USA. There has to be more to this story.

 

11/21/2020 9:06 AM  #6


Re: "Designed in the USA"

Lack or minimal import taxes?

 

11/21/2020 10:16 AM  #7


Re: "Designed in the USA"

TKOPerformance wrote:

There's always a price premium for things made in the USA, because our labor costs considerably more than labor costs overseas.  Frankly its a price I pay gladly.  American manufacturing is what led the US from a global nonplayer to the dominant economy on the planet.  Then starting about 1988 we began being fed this nonsense that American manufacturing wasn't necessary anymore.  That America needed to be a nation of college educated engineers, managers, and white collar workers.  If you look at how that's played out for America its objectively been proven to be a crock.  Good paying blue collar jobs with benefits is what built this country, why it thrived from WWII through the mid '80s, and if we want people to have any kind of standard of living its what is needed again.  So long as people prefer cheap over quality its not going to change. 

I live in Delaware, so my vote nationally, and even locally it seems does not matter.  Therefore my only recourse is to vote with my wallet.  I urge all patriots to do the same.

I'll get off my soapbox now.

Well...that question has been answered for me, I had to wonder.  Thank you Tom,  glad to hear your opinion and you will always be welcomed to my soapbox.

BB1
 


"you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
 

11/21/2020 10:29 AM  #8


Re: "Designed in the USA"

Over on the Lightning forum we has this same discussion around radiators and quality.

Some made in USA names were Ron Davis and Griffin, although it looks like the Ron Davis site is down.

http://www.rondavisradiators.com/
https://www.griffinrad.com/index.php

CBR does custom work I believe  https://www.cbr-performance.com/about-us/ 

 

11/21/2020 10:51 AM  #9


Re: "Designed in the USA"

red351 wrote:

I always fine it hard to believe that our labor costs can make that big of a difference in the final retail price of MADE IN THE USA. There has to be more to this story.

Labor is but one of the extra costs. EVERYTHING else costs more here to get the product out the door.


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
 

11/21/2020 11:09 AM  #10


Re: "Designed in the USA"

All good points

Trem/wand: That isn't the only play on word you get when trying to make a purchase and it drives me nuts.

TKO: I agree with BB

Kardad: My Aunt always told me it's cheaper to buy quality.

Red: I always said the same thing. You can't save some on labor, ship half way around the world, produce the same quality and sale 1/2 the price.

NOS: That has changed some, we'll see if it continues.

I remember when I was young a lot of junk coming from Japan, dad always called it Japanese junk. They produced a lot of junk after WWII to get their economy going. At least they improved over time. China on the other hand steals technology and floods the market with junk. Let's hope we don't go back to free trade with China. You can have your soap box back TKO.  
 


If this forum can't fix it, it isn't broke.
 

11/21/2020 11:15 AM  #11


Re: "Designed in the USA"

Part of it is also that US companies use higher grade materials, because stuff made in China fails all the time because the metallurgy is crap.  Its acceptable to use some measure of recycled material in almost anything.  The higher the amount of recycled material though the more chance of a metallurgical failure due to the fact that its impossible to completely 100% clean or purify the recycled material.  This leads to various forms of embrittlement, inclusions, etc.  This is why I've seen Chinese made brake rotors separate the hub from the ring and other similar and catastrophic failures.  China doesn't make enough of their own steel, aluminum, etc.  They buy most of it from us, and a lot of what they buy is in the form of scrap.  You will see massive piles of scrap at all our ports ready for export there.  Scrap is a lot less expensive that virgin material, which allows the cost of the finished product  to be low, but as the saying goes: you get what you pay for. 

Another big reason is that they typically don't pay for intellectual property, so they aren't forced to spread the design cost over the production run to recoup those costs.  Instead they hack into our companies, or just copy something they buy from a US company.  In most other nations the companies doing this would be sued and held accountable for theft of IP, violation of patent or copywrite law, etc.  Its essentially impossible to do that to Chinese companies.  They are protected by the fact that as a communist nation essentially the government makes everything, so you would have to in effect sue China in the World Court.  A nation can just run you out of business by forcing you to spend money trying to keep fighting when they have a limitless bankroll.  You won't lose, you'll just never go to trial before you go broke.  American companies unfortunately know this so they don't even try.  This raises the cost of American made products two ways.  First, they have to pay for or recoup the cost of the IP the way a company should.  Second, they have to raise prices to account for the market share they lost due to imperfect competition from Chinese goods.  If the US made companies were the only suppliers there would be greater economies of scale and the prices could be reduced to more competitive levels. 

 

11/21/2020 11:26 AM  #12


Re: "Designed in the USA"

I worked at Tilden iron ore mine (Cleveland Cliffs...aka CCI) for almost 2 years.
Great job but a lot of political BS.

When imported foreign steel prices were hurting our local economy, CCI closed adjacent Empire mine down.
Another layoff...i think 5th in two years...my partner was junior electrician had 29.5 years seniority who still had a job with layoff.

CCI requested government grants to keep the mines running and keep people employed.
Sounds great...as employees we all knew that the imported steel from Brazil...owned by CCI or its subsidiary.
The people I worked with/for were great to include salary as well as union.

The plea of poverty and shoving millions into other pocket opened my eyes.
I’m not well educated, but an idiot could see this.

I noticed the designed in USA several years ago. Especially when the part has a foreign country cast into it.

 

11/21/2020 12:41 PM  #13


Re: "Designed in the USA"

Bullet Bob wrote:

TKOPerformance wrote:

 

I live in Delaware, so my vote nationally, and even locally it seems does not matter.  Therefore my only recourse is to vote with my wallet.  I urge all patriots to do the same.

I'll get off my soapbox now.

Well...that question has been answered for me, I had to wonder.  Thank you Tom,  glad to hear your opinion and you will always be welcomed to my soapbox.

BB1
 

Careful of that "broad brush Bullet Bob!!" ......... We ALL are guilty of it sometimes.
6sal6
 


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

11/21/2020 2:53 PM  #14


Re: "Designed in the USA"

So, getting back on topic, I purchased the 24" rad set up from Cjpony. This non-aluminum rad seemed to be of good quality and as I recall, was made in Mexico. Worked well for my application and I'm satisfied with it. Personally, I'd prefer seeing made in the USA but in this case, it being  made south of the border is much better than having it made by the chi-coms.

As for the made in China steel type products, I've often wondered about the quality and overall safety of the two and four posts lifts they manufacture. I don't care if I get crushed, just don't want my mustang getting bent...

Last edited by josh-kebob (11/21/2020 2:53 PM)

 

11/21/2020 2:55 PM  #15


Re: "Designed in the USA"

Sometimes I learn by listening, other times I learn by experience. But eventually, I will learn no matter how stubborn I am.


70, ragtop 351W/416 stroker Edel Performer heads w pro flow 4, Comp roller 35-421-8. T5
 

11/21/2020 3:45 PM  #16


Re: "Designed in the USA"

I spent over 50 years working as an aircraft mechanic. When you depend on your tools for your livelihood you learn that buying quality tools is the only way to go. I also applied that thinking to my years as a Boy Scout leader. When you need to depend on your equipment for your survival in the outdoors, it always pays to get the best. If you go cheap, with equipment or tools, it will bite you in the end. 


68 coupe - 351W, 4R70W, 9" 3.25 -- 65 convertible - 289 4v, C4, 8" 3.00
 

11/21/2020 4:58 PM  #17


Re: "Designed in the USA"

Ron68 wrote:

I spent over 50 years working as an aircraft mechanic. When you depend on your tools for your livelihood you learn that buying quality tools is the only way to go. I also applied that thinking to my years as a Boy Scout leader. When you need to depend on your equipment for your survival in the outdoors, it always pays to get the best. If you go cheap, with equipment or tools,

" it will bite you in the end". 

Well said!
 


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

11/22/2020 12:08 AM  #18


Re: "Designed in the USA"

MAJORITY ...that’s a new one for me

 

11/22/2020 7:48 AM  #19


Re: "Designed in the USA"

Translation: hardware, which is what will fail, is made in China

Thanks a lot Ford.

 

11/22/2020 2:18 PM  #20


Re: "Designed in the USA"

Nos681 wrote:

MAJORITY ...that’s a new one for me

 
That'll keep you guessing

 

11/22/2020 8:05 PM  #21


Re: "Designed in the USA"

"Made in the USA" is actually a legally controlled term.  Kind of like how you can't just call anything "organic".  

What's become common is the phrase "made in the USA from globally sourced products".  The reality is, it's almost impossible for anyone to make any consumer product of any kind of reasonable complexity and source the objects 100% from one place.  

Chinese manufacturing has actually taken a hit as their cost have gone up.  Walk into any autozone or oriely's and you'll see a lot more 'made in taiwan, india, or mexico'.  

     Thread Starter
 

11/23/2020 4:29 PM  #22


Re: "Designed in the USA"

That's likely true, as we've been on a trend towards globalization for over 30 years, though there was some rollback in the last 3-4 years.  I think its important to recognize what brought us to this state of affairs and how it has had only a negative impact on American workers, wages, and tax revenue.

We used to make things 100%in the US, and we were the only nation on Earth that had the natural resources to allow this.  We have enough resources for almost 100% of our own demand.  The only things we don't have in large enough quantities are oddball stuff like titanium.  We used to pride ourselves on our companies being vertically integrated with operations inside and across the US.  Henry Ford didn't just build cars.  He owned the forests the wood for his car bodies were built from came out of, plus the sawmills, and even created charcoal to be able to sell the scrap.  We produced out own steel, aluminum, oil, etc.

All this industry that built communities and gave people an income on which they could own a home, raise kids, and eventually retire started to get sold out in bad trade and tax deals in the late '80s.  This is why so much material and now even manufactured products come from foreign sources.  Greedy, shortsighted politicians allowed us to enter trade deals that made it advantageous for US companies to export jobs and buy materials from foreign sources.

Concurrently we were all sold a story that America was going to be the intellectual capital of the world.  We didn't need to work with our hands anymore, because we were all going to college to learn to be computer programmers and communications experts.  The problem is that this simply created a job market where there were too many chiefs and not enough indians.  Ultimately it had the opposite effect where college diplomas in many fields now mean little without a masters or doctorate, and a high priced education nets a job that pays barely enough to pay off your student loans. 

Meanwhile blue collar workers and those not cut out for college have seen wages stagnate as inflation and higher compound taxes on goods and services take more an more of their income to where now I don't see how they will retire, they can't afford to get sick, and their kids are just going to fall into the college loan scam. 

Its a real shame, and its not going to stop unless we demand it.  Politicians on both sides have had countless opportunities to fix it and haven't.  Obviously they want it this way.  The only way to change it is to demand it by making made in the USA mean something when we open our wallets.  At this point I guess anything assembled or partially made in the USA is better than  foreign sourced.  If we buy only those and run the foreign stuff out of business hopefully more and more starts getting made in the USA and we can get back to a thriving middle class and people being able to elevate themselves out of poverty by securing a stable, good paying job that doesn't require an education that wasn't worth the price of admission. 

 

11/23/2020 4:51 PM  #23


Re: "Designed in the USA"

TKOPerformance wrote:

There's always a price premium for things made in the USA, because our labor costs considerably more than labor costs overseas.  Frankly its a price I pay gladly.  American manufacturing is what led the US from a global nonplayer to the dominant economy on the planet.  Then starting about 1988 we began being fed this nonsense that American manufacturing wasn't necessary anymore.  That America needed to be a nation of college educated engineers, managers, and white collar workers.  If you look at how that's played out for America its objectively been proven to be a crock.  Good paying blue collar jobs with benefits is what built this country, why it thrived from WWII through the mid '80s, and if we want people to have any kind of standard of living its what is needed again.  So long as people prefer cheap over quality its not going to change. 

I live in Delaware, so my vote nationally, and even locally it seems does not matter.  Therefore my only recourse is to vote with my wallet.  I urge all patriots to do the same.

I'll get off my soapbox now.

TKO -  I couldn't agree more with you.  The other problem is that adhering to specifications is not always accomplished in China, and other places.  There are enough published reports on this from tires to sheetrock to steel piping to the glue used in flooring.  I worked with a person that was coordinating building a a hand-held game back in the 90's, the Chinese manufacturer that built the batteries made them slightly larger then the specs, and they didn't fit into the device.  The response, "it's close enough", lawsuits did not bring a positive resolution, and the company took the loss and moved to another manufacturer. 
However, one is limited to what can be bought that is not made in China.


65 Fastback, 351W, 5-speed, 4 wheel discs, 9" rear,  R&C Front End.
 

Board footera


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