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11/23/2020 1:47 PM  #1


Mustang Steve. Can we talk about your fastback today?

You've told us the tales in the past of the vibration problem you've chased forever.   Let's talk about that again.  Describe the vibration, what all you have changed to no effect.


If multiple things can go wrong, the one that will go wrong will be the one that causes the most damage.
 

11/23/2020 2:29 PM  #2


Re: Mustang Steve. Can we talk about your fastback today?

I will mention here what I started thinking about.   I read an article about brakes and brake drums and how auto manufacturers used to balance drums.  It was about new aftermarket parts no longer going through this step.  So that got me to thinking...  What about that big notch that Ford cut into the front brake hubs?  Wondering if this may be causing balance issues at greater speeds.  I started researching, I ran across a cj pony video where they change out some front brake drums and I noticed that on the drum, the big azz balance weight on the drum is directly where the notch is.


If multiple things can go wrong, the one that will go wrong will be the one that causes the most damage.
     Thread Starter
 

11/23/2020 4:38 PM  #3


Re: Mustang Steve. Can we talk about your fastback today?

Very hard to find anymore, but there used to be shops that would balance tires on the vehicle.  This way they took into account anything out of balance in the brakes, hub, etc. instead of just the tire and wheel.  My farther-in-law swears by this method. 

 

11/23/2020 6:48 PM  #4


Re: Mustang Steve. Can we talk about your fastback today?

TKOPerformance wrote:

Very hard to find anymore, but there used to be shops that would balance tires on the vehicle.  This way they took into account anything out of balance in the brakes, hub, etc. instead of just the tire and wheel.  My farther-in-law swears by this method. 

Yup. Until the old cat retired, we had a shop like this in town. He also shaved the treads to get a round tire. No mas.


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
 

11/23/2020 7:09 PM  #5


Re: Mustang Steve. Can we talk about your fastback today?

If you balance the tires installed on the car, then when you rotate the tires you would need them re-balanced.  That would be a down side to this method of balancing.


1968 T-code Coupe with a 302.  Nice car, no show stopper for sure, but I like it.
 

11/23/2020 8:32 PM  #6


Re: Mustang Steve. Can we talk about your fastback today?

TKOPerformance wrote:

Very hard to find anymore, but there used to be shops that would balance tires on the vehicle.  This way they took into account anything out of balance in the brakes, hub, etc. instead of just the tire and wheel.  My farther-in-law swears by this method. 

I had an old guy that used to do that on my cars till he died at his shop. It's not as bad as it seems. He loved that place and was happy to the end. I never found out the name or what kind of balancing that was. Does anyone know? The computer balancing is nowhere near good as that method.


70, ragtop 351W/416 stroker Edel Performer heads w pro flow 4, Comp roller 35-421-8. T5
 

11/24/2020 6:34 AM  #7


Re: Mustang Steve. Can we talk about your fastback today?

Rufus68 wrote:

If you balance the tires installed on the car, then when you rotate the tires you would need them re-balanced.  That would be a down side to this method of balancing.

Yes, that is true, but I think a small price to pay for the added smoothness. 

 

11/24/2020 7:05 AM  #8


Re: Mustang Steve. Can we talk about your fastback today?

TKOPerformance wrote:

Rufus68 wrote:

If you balance the tires installed on the car, then when you rotate the tires you would need them re-balanced.  That would be a down side to this method of balancing.

Yes, that is true, but I think a small price to pay for the added smoothness. 

This is a fact.  I had my tires balanced on the car years ago (front discs, rear drum).  Some time later I did a brake job and didn't take note of how the wheels were installed, car badly vibrated afterward, had to get all four re-balanced.  I also haven't found any shop that does this anymore.


65 Fastback, 351W, 5-speed, 4 wheel discs, 9" rear,  R&C Front End.
 

11/24/2020 10:53 AM  #9


Re: Mustang Steve. Can we talk about your fastback today?

Here's one for a giggle. I check the balance on drums and rotors on a HF bubble balancer. Most aren't that far off balance.

 

11/24/2020 5:50 PM  #10


Re: Mustang Steve. Can we talk about your fastback today?

That went off the rails quickly. 
Every single part (yes, every part) has been replaced at least three times

It is not s vibration, but rather a harmonic above 74mph.   You don’t feel it.   You hear it.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

11/25/2020 8:11 AM  #11


Re: Mustang Steve. Can we talk about your fastback today?

All the same, it's probably time somebody redesigned that front hub.   If they do, you will have one more thing to change out.  I have a set of v8 spindles on my shelf with drum brakes still on them that came off that old rusty coupe I once had.  Both have big counterweights on the drum.  I thought about pulling one off yesterday just to see if it was directly over the notch.

And I know this whole thing seems a bit out in left field, but since the notch is in both sides, and the newer rotors and tires are balanced, wouldn't that make the imbalance in both hubs, and attached rotating masses relatively equal on both sides?   There is your tuning fork... kind of like an exhaust drone.

Last edited by Greg B (11/25/2020 8:18 AM)


If multiple things can go wrong, the one that will go wrong will be the one that causes the most damage.
     Thread Starter
 

11/25/2020 11:06 AM  #12


Re: Mustang Steve. Can we talk about your fastback today?

Did this occur without sub frame connectors?

 

11/25/2020 11:41 AM  #13


Re: Mustang Steve. Can we talk about your fastback today?

MS wrote:

That went off the rails quickly. 
Every single part (yes, every part) has been replaced at least three times

It is not s vibration, but rather a harmonic above 74mph.   You don’t feel it.   You hear it.

 
Hmmm, harmonics eh, is that when two car parts are having an argument with each other?


Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
 

11/25/2020 9:57 PM  #14


Re: Mustang Steve. Can we talk about your fastback today?

Greg B wrote:

All the same, it's probably time somebody redesigned that front hub.   If they do, you will have one more thing to change out.  I have a set of v8 spindles on my shelf with drum brakes still on them that came off that old rusty coupe I once had.  Both have big counterweights on the drum.  I thought about pulling one off yesterday just to see if it was directly over the notch.

And I know this whole thing seems a bit out in left field, but since the notch is in both sides, and the newer rotors and tires are balanced, wouldn't that make the imbalance in both hubs, and attached rotating masses relatively equal on both sides?   There is your tuning fork... kind of like an exhaust drone.

 
Note that six cylinder drum hubs are not even symmetrical.  I think that notch had more to do with controlling warpage from thermal expansion cycles than balance. It is so close to center, and only rotating about 800 rpm that I doubt it was measurable.

I will be exploring the removal of interior quarter panels that have heavy speakers in them as my next attempt to find the problem.  Just need an appropriate round-tuit to get started. Those panels have never changed since 1992. Only thing not changed.  Vibe is same before and after subframe connectors.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

11/26/2020 2:28 PM  #15


Re: Mustang Steve. Can we talk about your fastback today?

I had a harmonics or
drone problem with my car, you couldn't even have a conversation in the car. I walked by my wife's Explorer on day and my car cover caught on the exhaust and I noticed that it shook a lot. My Mustang's exhaust is mounted very ridged especially with the hangers before the axle hump so I replaced them with the hangers on the Explorer. Guess what the drone went away and I can enjoy the radio and the exhaust sound!


1965 Notchback, 8.8 rear end, T-5, Diy Front Struts, Shelby Drop, Bumpsteer Kit
 

11/26/2020 4:47 PM  #16


Re: Mustang Steve. Can we talk about your fastback today?




My newer exhaust system has these hangers installed now.
Seem to work well, also believe they transfer more vibrations to body.

MS ...do you still have your hook tabs at rear for easy exhaust removal?
I like the design, thought it may be a source for vibration at speed.
Don’t recall the details on your bracket/hanger arrangement for tailpipes.

 

11/27/2020 9:10 AM  #17


Re: Mustang Steve. Can we talk about your fastback today?

I am using Foxbody mounts st rear of the mufflers and 2007 Mustang rear tailpipe mounts.  Both pretty soft.   All have been changed THREE TIMES along with 2” system, 2-1/4” system and two different 2-1/2” systems with zero change in the vibe.  I do not believe it has anything to do with exhaust.  The last attempt was to remove the h-pipe and install two flexible 8” long sections.  Zero change.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

11/27/2020 11:04 PM  #18


Re: Mustang Steve. Can we talk about your fastback today?

MS have you thought about having someone ride in the back seat pressing around to see if a source can be pin pointed before you take the interior apart?


John  -- 67 Mustang Coupe 390 5 speed
 

11/28/2020 10:38 AM  #19


Re: Mustang Steve. Can we talk about your fastback today?

Bolted to Floor wrote:

MS have you thought about having someone ride in the back seat pressing around to see if a source can be pin pointed before you take the interior apart?

Yes, but I have some things I need to improve under there anyway.  The thought of having an unbelted passenger back there on I-35 at 80 mph has zero appeal.

If I remove everything and the noise goes away, I know where to look.  If it does not go away, I know where not to look.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

11/28/2020 4:13 PM  #20


Re: Mustang Steve. Can we talk about your fastback today?

Having the rear seat UP or.......not up....make any difference?
6s6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

11/28/2020 4:19 PM  #21


Re: Mustang Steve. Can we talk about your fastback today?

Sal, I don’t remember, but I don’t think so.  It has been in the down position for 28 years.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

Board footera


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