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1966 Mustang Coupe, 5.0 Swap, EFI/MAF, T5z
I've never used the heater on my ride. I don't plan on driving it in the cold but I was planning on doing a coolant flush before the upgrade to the larger radiator so I wanted to see if it worked. I'd rebuilt the POS heater box made out of fiberglass several years ago, replaced all the pads and cables. I guess injection molding was too expensive back in the day. It's wired to the blower motor and I'd replaced the heater core about a year ago to after I got some leaks onto the floor boards.
Well it seemed to be producing warm air from the bottom but not very much air flow. Almost like a very light breeze. After about 10 minutes the temperature warning light kicked on. I realize my radiator is too small for my setup. I'm upgrading to a 24 in radiator w/ dual electric fans. But I thought operating the heater would keep the car cooler not cause it to overheat. They always say turn on your heater if your car starts to overheat so the heater coil can act as another heat exchanger. I was doing this at idle in my garage if that makes a difference.
On a side note, doe anyone have an official write up on how the entire classic mustang heater system is supposed to work with the levers, cables, and heater box? Not sure what the one that says 'temp' actually does if there is also a lever that says 'heat' and this thing has no a/c.
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Your understanding is correct, turning on the heater should add surface area to the heat exchanger and lower engine temperature. If its getting hotter something would seem to not be right. Are you sure the hoses are connected correctly?
As far as what the cables do, the temperature cable moves the temperature door in the heater box. This alters the amount of surface area of the hole through which hot air can move. Temp is hottest all the way down.
The heat cable opens the door that directs heat to the floor. Down position is heat.
The other lever should be defrost, which closes the floor door and opens the dash door in the heater box to direct hot air to the windshield. You can position this lever full closed, full open, or somewhere between to get a mix of heat and defrost. Down position is full defrost. To mix heat and defrost adjust the defrost lever between full (all the way down) and off (all the way up)
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Actually...the HEAT lever opens the door between the VENT and the Heater Core. The stock heater has a Cabin Door which can be opened manually to allow fresh air in from the right cowl vent. By closing that Cabin Door and moving the HEAT lever to Heat, air is directed through the heater core according to the position of the TEMP lever.
BB1.
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I thought that maybe air was trapped in the heater core, but then i realized that on the original system, the coolant water is always flowing through the heater core all the time, the interior heat control is by the flaps described in the other posts. Unless there is an non-stock in line shut-off valve installed in the coolant line, this is weird condition.
As this is a 66 Mustang, it should have a temperature gauge, what temperature warning light is installed?
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I switched over to a Dakota Digital gauge system. It gives a temp warning at 220 degrees.
This is precisely why I'm upgrading to the 24 inch radiator w/ dual fans. I suspect that will fix the problem regardless.
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TremendousWand wrote:
This is precisely why I'm upgrading to the 24 inch radiator w/ dual fans. I suspect that will fix the problem regardless.
Make sure you do your homework on this. I have seen lots of people have lots of problems with cooling when they have gone with such setups. I think if you are having cooling issues now (with what I assume is the stock Ford set up), then a couple of electric fans will not help much.
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HEAT goes to passenger side of heater assembly.
TEMP goes to center top on heater box.
DEF goes to transmission tunnel by gas pedal.
As for air flow goes...if HEAT is on full vent barely any air comes out.
I would check cables are working as described in picture first.
I think you may have had full vent and no air was going thru heater box at all.
When you do get air flow...try reversing the 2 connectors to fan in engine compartment to see if airflow increases or decreases. I have connected those backwards in the past too...especially after motor replacement.
I am running a stock size aluminum radiator (2 row, 1” tubes) for a 289 no a/c and no problems.
I’m running an electric fan as well.
Last edited by Nos681 (11/30/2020 6:35 PM)
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Have you actually checked engine temp with a thermal gun? I agree with Top on this. Best to find out what the problem really is before throwing $$$ at it. Maybe the problem is in the Dakota Dig. system. I mean, is the engine really getting hot or is it just indicating hot?
BB1
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Just re-read your initial post. You say the heater makes warm air but not much wind. If your system is pulling down the voltage that could possibly cause the instrument system to indicate erroneously.
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What type of radiator fan?
In either case, is the fan blade rotating in correct direction?
Easier to mix this up with an electric fan.
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Nos681 wrote:
HEAT goes to passenger side of heater assembly.
TEMP goes to center top on heater box.
DEF goes to transmission tunnel by gas pedal.
As for air flow goes...if HEAT is on full vent barely any air comes out.
I would check cables are working as described in picture first.
I think you may have had full vent and no air was going thru heater box at all.
When you do get air flow...try reversing the 2 connectors to fan in engine compartment to see if airflow increases or decreases. I have connected those backwards in the past too...especially after motor replacement.
I am running a stock size aluminum radiator (2 row, 1” tubes) for a 289 no a/c and no problems.
I’m running an electric fan as well.
I agree - low airflow after doing a heater rebuild is most likely the wires swapped. Polarity makes a big difference on fan operation. I did the same and got the wires reversed. Very low airflow - swapped wires back, and much higher airflow.
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Toploader wrote:
TremendousWand wrote:
This is precisely why I'm upgrading to the 24 inch radiator w/ dual fans. I suspect that will fix the problem regardless.Make sure you do your homework on this. I have seen lots of people have lots of problems with cooling when they have gone with such setups. I think if you are having cooling issues now (with what I assume is the stock Ford set up), then a couple of electric fans will not help much.
Temperature is the temperature. No fancy science or technology about it. I'm running the 1966 16 inch radiator all be it an aluminum one. (I purchased the car w/ this radiator.) It's supposed to be able to cool up to 300 hp which it does (sort of). The car holds temperature but when idling too much it starts to creep up. W/o the electric fan it would over heat really quick. The stock foxbody radiator was 24 x 18 w/ a fan and shroud. So I'm definitely undersized regardless.
Not sure why the heater being on caused the temp to creep up but I will double check that my blower is going in the right direction. I had a cam swap, rack and pinion steering, and rear end swap higher on my list initially but I'm opting to go ahead and do this cooling system mod first to get it done right.
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TremendousWand wrote:
Temperature is the temperature. No fancy science or technology about it. I'm running the 1966 16 inch radiator all be it an aluminum one. (I purchased the car w/ this radiator.) It's supposed to be able to cool up to 300 hp which it does (sort of). The car holds temperature but when idling too much it starts to creep up. W/o the electric fan it would over heat really quick. The stock foxbody radiator was 24 x 18 w/ a fan and shroud. So I'm definitely undersized regardless.
I often wonder what people do to their cars to cause overheating. Most forums on this topic seem to involve electric fans and aluminum radiators. I know of people that remove the electric fans and aluminum radiator and go back to the original set up.
As you say, temperature is temperature and there is no fancy science, but do the electric fans complicate a simple system that Ford designed and worked well?
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OK here's a spaghetti at the wall theory. Could the t-stat be stuck or only partially opening and once the heater is turned to hot the heater control valve (assuming you have one) opens and allows some water to flow and that coupled with the bypass you're seeing better circulation and in turn closer to the true water temp.
Just a guess...
Last edited by Raymond_B (12/01/2020 2:19 PM)
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Toploader wrote:
TremendousWand wrote:
Temperature is the temperature. No fancy science or technology about it. I'm running the 1966 16 inch radiator all be it an aluminum one. (I purchased the car w/ this radiator.) It's supposed to be able to cool up to 300 hp which it does (sort of). The car holds temperature but when idling too much it starts to creep up. W/o the electric fan it would over heat really quick. The stock foxbody radiator was 24 x 18 w/ a fan and shroud. So I'm definitely undersized regardless.
I often wonder what people do to their cars to cause overheating. Most forums on this topic seem to involve electric fans and aluminum radiators. I know of people that remove the electric fans and aluminum radiator and go back to the original set up.
As you say, temperature is temperature and there is no fancy science, but do the electric fans complicate a simple system that Ford designed and worked well?
Unless the fans some how violate the thermodynamic laws of the known universe and somehow add heat to the car then the fans have nothing to do with it. Car has been holding temperature fine. Radiator and electric fan is the same setup on countless millions of car new and old.
It's all a moot point. Like I said, I need a proper radiator regardless. Just weird that the temperature went up w/ the heater on.
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All of this is ATFER new gauges?
Have you run the engine up to operating temp with cap off to observe coolant circulation, from a cold start?
Have any debris in radiator to reduce heat transfer?
Did you recently replace thermostat/housing/gasket...excessive RTV somewhere?
Work on exhaust and not plug O2 sensors back in?
Is ECT connected and working correctly?
Just thinking about other possible causes.
Any pictures of your setup? Sometimes that can help too.
Last edited by Nos681 (12/01/2020 5:45 PM)
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Just closing this up, whoever said it first was right: wires were switched on the blower motor. Very odd... blower motor has one red and one black wire and the wiring harness has one red and one black wire and I thought red-red, black-black because why the hell not? For whatever reason it's red-black, black-red on my ride.
Car is holding temp just fine working as supposed to. Temp stays between 180-195 (I have a 180 thermostat) and fan kicks on and off at just like it's supposed to. On a side note: I was pleasantly suprised at just how nice and toasty the warm air was coming from the heater box. With such a small cabin, doesn't take much to warm up. Still not driving it in anywhere close to freezing temps with the summer tires but we stay in the mid 50s in most afternoons around these parts in the winter. That's solid driving temperature for an afternoon out.
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Interesting, my blower wires are yellow and brown, and these colors match the published Mustang wiring diagram.
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Toploader wrote:
I often wonder what people do to their cars to cause overheating. Most forums on this topic seem to involve electric fans and aluminum radiators. I know of people that remove the electric fans and aluminum radiator and go back to the original set up.
As you say, temperature is temperature and there is no fancy science, but do the electric fans complicate a simple system that Ford designed and worked well?
This is how i look at what has worked for me.
I personally gave up on temp switches for fans, even using relays.
The old mechanical fans didn’t have a clutch.
Therefore, the thermostat regulates temp in the engine by opening and closing as needed.
By operating the electric fan continuously, the thermostat performs the same exact operation.
Problem I read the most about is when air conditioning is involved.
For those who remember driving in the 1970-1980’s, I was too young to drive, there used to be signs along long uphill grades that advised drivers to turn off their air conditioning.
I remember asking my dad about it and why.
With his past experience as a semi truck driver, he explained the affects of the condenser contributing to cooling problems...never forgot it.
It happens on the Grapevine in California all of the time...even in newer cars.
TL...I learned a lot about the affects of timing and vacuum advance.
Self inflicted problems due to lack of knowledge and experience.
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The thermostat always regulates temperature, regardless of the type of fan used. Its function is to keep the engine at a set operating temperature irrespective of ambient temperature.
The fan's job is to ensure that the radiator is able to reject enough heat to prevent the engine from overheating.
Keep in mind, all a thermostat can do is open or close. Once its open it can't do anything to reduce operating temperature further. That's where the fan and radiator have to be up to the task of getting enough heat out of the coolant.
By running an electric fan constantly you can have issues in winter. This may or may not be an issue depending on how cold it gets where you live.
The only time an electric fan should ever really run constantly is when the AC is on, because there MUST be airflow through the condenser or you risk a system failure.
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