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12/05/2020 3:03 PM  #1


Coolant Leak

This is the first time I’ve seen this, after this amount of time.

My engine (5.0 block with AFR aluminum heads) is leaking coolant at the head gasket externally. Based on what I can dertermine it is betwthe block and head gasket. The engine only has about 5000 miles on it but has been built and running for about eight years or so.

I would have thought this problem would have occurred within a few miles or hours of running.

There are several different torque specs but it appears based on what I found for ARP head bolts is 80 lbs on the long and 70 lbs in the short bolts. I checked them and at these specs none of them moved.

So I guess, off come the heads, now do I just do the drivers side that is leaking or both?

I had a leak on top of the timing cover just below the head on the driver side back in the summer but tightened the timing cover and it seemed to go away.

I put my pressure tester on the system and pumped it up to 12-14 lbs and it had a steady flow just above the oil filter.

I wanted to do fun stuff this winter not pull the motor.

 

12/05/2020 3:32 PM  #2


Re: Coolant Leak

Do one head or both?  I mean, come on, you already known the answer to that.  I'm not going to pump rainbows up your you know what.  If one failed how long is it before the other one does?  Do you really want to pull the intake etc. again? 

My questions would be: What gaskets did you use?  What does AFR recommend?  Did you check to make sure all the passages were lined up correctly?  Was any sealer used? 

All you really know at this point is that its leaking.  Presumably its the gasket, but I'd pay real close attention to everything else.  A crack could have developed for example. 

 

12/05/2020 3:51 PM  #3


Re: Coolant Leak

Agreed TKO,

This is a rare engine as meaning I didn’t assemble it, I have always assembled my own.

I agree that once I get it out I’ll have the heads checked and see what gasket is recommended by AFR. If you have an opinion on gasket (I know you do) I’ll take it.

I’m just aggravated, to be taking something apart that runs so good.

     Thread Starter
 

12/05/2020 4:12 PM  #4


Re: Coolant Leak

Hey, I'm right there with you.  I've lived with a lot over the years on DDs because of that.

I had good luck with the top end FelPros on SBFs over the years, but I used Cometic gaskets on my 331 due to a ton of guys on various forums with racing experience with them praising them so highly.  Also, they were available in the 4.030" bore size I wanted.  AFR recommends a Fel-Pro 1011-1 for most of their SBF heads I believe.  I don't think you can go wrong with either.  I used the Cometic C5511-040.  Neither of those gaskets is cheap, but IMO with only 10 head bolts (though mine has ARP studs) SBFs need the best gaskets you can get, especially if you are running them hard.  I wanted to be able to spray my 331, so that was also part of my decision. 

 

12/05/2020 4:50 PM  #5


Re: Coolant Leak

Agreed TKO,

This is a rare engine as meaning I didn’t assemble it, I have always assembled my own.

I agree that once I get it out I’ll have the heads checked and see what gasket is recommended by AFR. If you have an opinion on gasket (I know you do) I’ll take it.

I’m just aggravated, to be taking something apart that runs so good.

     Thread Starter
 

12/05/2020 8:54 PM  #6


Re: Coolant Leak

If you go with a Cometic, make sure to research surface prep of heads and block. I understand Cometics require a surface prep that is not typical to what is needed if your using a Felpro gasket.


John  -- 67 Mustang Coupe 390 5 speed
 

12/05/2020 9:05 PM  #7


Re: Coolant Leak

Interesting...Back in '15 I put AFR 165s on the 5.0 in the Heap and used the recommended 1011-1 FelPro gaskest.  Right from go it had a very minor, yet annoying, leak at the back of the right head.  Under normal driving if didnt' seem to leak but if it set for a couple of weeks it would leave a palm sized puddle.  The way it was running down I thought it was from one of the soft plugs so I loaded it up with a couple of tablespoons of black pepper and it stopped for about a year.  Then came back and I re-peppered it.  
When things went south earlier this year I pulled the heads and discovered that the AFR heads have an oversized coolant hole at the end that gets very close (1/16") to the edge of the gasket. 
Heads and block have been freshly surfaced so we'll see if that fixes the problem...if I ever get the engine back together, that is.

BB1

Last edited by Bullet Bob (12/05/2020 9:06 PM)


"you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
 

12/06/2020 7:04 AM  #8


Re: Coolant Leak

Bullet Bob wrote:

Interesting...Back in '15 I put AFR 165s on the 5.0 in the Heap and used the recommended 1011-1 FelPro gaskest.  Right from go it had a very minor, yet annoying, leak at the back of the right head.  Under normal driving if didnt' seem to leak but if it set for a couple of weeks it would leave a palm sized puddle.  The way it was running down I thought it was from one of the soft plugs so I loaded it up with a couple of tablespoons of black pepper and it stopped for about a year.  Then came back and I re-peppered it.  
When things went south earlier this year I pulled the heads and discovered that the AFR heads have an oversized coolant hole at the end that gets very close (1/16") to the edge of the gasket. 
Heads and block have been freshly surfaced so we'll see if that fixes the problem...if I ever get the engine back together, that is.

BB1

Did you torque the head bolts again after initial run in?
 

 

12/06/2020 7:13 AM  #9


Re: Coolant Leak

Bolted to Floor wrote:

If you go with a Cometic, make sure to research surface prep of heads and block. I understand Cometics require a surface prep that is not typical to what is needed if your using a Felpro gasket.

Its actually about the same, Cometic recommends a 50RA finish, whereas Fel-Pro recommends a 50-60 for aluminum and 60-80 for cast iron.  The higher the number the rougher the finish.  You would not be able to observe a difference in a 50 RA vs. an 80 RA.  The measurement is in micro inches in terms of height peak to valley for the surface.  You'd need a microscope to even see it.  A factory MLS gasket may want a very fine finish like a 30 RA, but the Cometics are made with different sealing material to accommodate a finish rougher than what a factory MLS gasket would want.  They wisely recognized that all of their gaskets are not going to be used on clean sheet builds, and if you are replacing a gasket due to failure you are stuck with whatever finish the block and head had before you tore into it. 
 

 

12/06/2020 10:18 AM  #10


Re: Coolant Leak

TKOPerformance wrote:

Did you torque the head bolts again after initial run in?
 

Absolutely!  Butt (TS&T), the block was not freshly surfaced.
 


"you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
 

12/06/2020 10:51 AM  #11


Re: Coolant Leak

Bullet Bob wrote:

TKOPerformance wrote:

Did you torque the head bolts again after initial run in?
 

Absolutely!  Butt (TS&T), the block was not freshly surfaced.
 

Probably due to that passage being so close to the edge.  I hate when they bring the passages that close to the edge.  The 6.0 Diesel is like that too, and a lot of them develop small leaks in the same area.  You can't put any kind of sealer in them because of the delicate oil cooler that could become clogged.  Most guys just live with it because pulling the heads is a MAJOR chore (I pulled the cab off the chassis when I did mine, and that's how most shops do it). 

 

12/06/2020 10:19 PM  #12


Re: Coolant Leak

TKOPerformance wrote:

Bolted to Floor wrote:

If you go with a Cometic, make sure to research surface prep of heads and block. I understand Cometics require a surface prep that is not typical to what is needed if your using a Felpro gasket.

Its actually about the same, Cometic recommends a 50RA finish, whereas Fel-Pro recommends a 50-60 for aluminum and 60-80 for cast iron.  The higher the number the rougher the finish.  You would not be able to observe a difference in a 50 RA vs. an 80 RA.  The measurement is in micro inches in terms of height peak to valley for the surface.  You'd need a microscope to even see it.  A factory MLS gasket may want a very fine finish like a 30 RA, but the Cometics are made with different sealing material to accommodate a finish rougher than what a factory MLS gasket would want.  They wisely recognized that all of their gaskets are not going to be used on clean sheet builds, and if you are replacing a gasket due to failure you are stuck with whatever finish the block and head had before you tore into it. 
 

 
I knew there was some differences but not sure how much. I wanted to throw it out there as something that should be considered.


John  -- 67 Mustang Coupe 390 5 speed
 

Board footera


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