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Thanks for the education re: Cast cams .Would have been helpful to mention that Ford used cast IRON cam shafts . Well after replacing the stripped cam with the bad gear and buying 3 rebuilt cast gear distbuters which replaced the after market steel gear distributers the car is again running. What an ordeal. never to old to learn .You guys are very knowlegeable .You can't fix stupid .
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It does get confusing. I went through this did a lot of reading and calling cam companies and Ford Motorsports. What I feel and believe is correct. Flat tappet cams are cast iron and use a regular cast gear. Ford factory roller cams are billet 5150 steel and are fully machined and use either a steel gear or a Melonized gear. Most aftermarket hydraulic roller are what is called a "SADI" or Selectively Hardened Ductile Iron. That means they are cast ductile iron where just the lobes are hardened. It's the same material crankshafts are made out of. You can use either the same gear as used on a flat tapper or a Melonized gear. Solid roller cams are a much harder 8620 billet and can only used a poly gear or brass gear.
Most aftermarket distributors use Melonized gear as the default material as it will work on a flat tappet, SADI or 5150 billet cam.
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I've found that every aftermarket hydraulic roller cam I've used was okay to use with the stock distributor gear. I always verified this by calling the manufacturer, typically Crane (great tech service BTW). The Crane cams for years had IG as part of the part number which mean they used an iron gear suitable for use with the stock distributor gear. IMO, if not clearly stated on the cam card or other literature that comes with the cam I would call the manufacturer to verify. It might take you 20 minutes on the phone, but no guesswork, and no problems later.
I must say, I've never run a solid roller, but given the valve spring pressures typically found in an vale train that would want to run a solid roller I would have to believe that Huskinhano is spot on about needing a special gear for them.
Factory cast cams reminds me of a story Smokey Yunick told in his autobiography. He'd won a race and the powers that be weren't happy about it so they asked for his cam so they could check it. Back then their checking ability was limited, and guys used to play with the profile specs they couldn't check like overlap, etc. Mad about being singled out Smokey smacked the cam on a workbench and it broke into three pieces. He picked up one and handed it to the tech inspector who looked at it like "I can't check this" to which Smokey responded "What's the matter? All you need is two lobes together right?" There were probably some expletives in there too for good measure.
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mrputz1 wrote:
Thanks for the education re: Cast cams .Would have been helpful to mention that Ford used cast IRON cam shafts . Well after replacing the stripped cam with the bad gear and buying 3 rebuilt cast gear distbuters which replaced the after market steel gear distributers the car is again running. What an ordeal. never to old to learn .You guys are very knowlegeable .You can't fix stupid .
When i replaced the chewed up cast cam 15 of the flat tappet lifters were spot ok . But WOW one as dished out . What would have caused it. Bad metal to thight valve adjustment?????/ I did put in all new lifters
Last edited by mrputz1 (11/13/2017 10:09 AM)
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A lot of different things can cause the lobes to wear off the cams or dish the lifters out. Right now the quick go to answer for cam manufacturers is improper break in with oil that does not have the correct additives. But yea chebbies have been eating cams for alot of years.
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When my pal Larry and I put together his dirt track Chevy engine naturally we used all new cam lifters springs etc.
Upon initial "fire-up" another guy stabbed the distributor 180* out. We cranked-& cranked &-cranked until we figgered out the problem.
Almost positive we flattened a lobe or two. Engine still ran well.....won a few races and placed even more!!
FT cams are so "funny".....its mandatory to have the timing right on.....fuel in the carb...everything.....to give the camshaft a chance to live.
To OP..........did you have to crank it a lot when you put the new cam and lifters in?!
6s6
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MachTJ wrote:
A lot of different things can cause the lobes to wear off the cams or dish the lifters out. Right now the quick go to answer for cam manufacturers is improper break in with oil that does not have the correct additives. But yea chebbies have been eating cams for alot of years.
I used non-detergent for break in
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6sally6 wrote:
When my pal Larry and I put together his dirt track Chevy engine naturally we used all new cam lifters springs etc.
Upon initial "fire-up" another guy stabbed the distributor 180* out. We cranked-& cranked &-cranked until we figgered out the problem.
Almost positive we flattened a lobe or two. Engine still ran well.....won a few races and placed even more!!
FT cams are so "funny".....its mandatory to have the timing right on.....fuel in the carb...everything.....to give the camshaft a chance to live.
To OP..........did you have to crank it a lot when you put the new cam and lifters in?!
6s6
not on this one others yes 180 out Belch thru the carb very obvious .
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mrputz1 wrote:
6sally6 wrote:
When my pal Larry and I put together his dirt track Chevy engine naturally we used all new cam lifters springs etc.
Upon initial "fire-up" another guy stabbed the distributor 180* out. We cranked-& cranked &-cranked until we figgered out the problem.
Almost positive we flattened a lobe or two. Engine still ran well.....won a few races and placed even more!!
FT cams are so "funny".....its mandatory to have the timing right on.....fuel in the carb...everything.....to give the camshaft a chance to live.
To OP..........did you have to crank it a lot when you put the new cam and lifters in?!
6s6not on this one others yes 180 out Belch thru the carb very obvious .
THAT was prolly the reason for the flat lobe/eat up lifter!?!
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when adjusting the valve lash do you guys do it cold or engine running ?
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I've always adjusted valves when the engine is cold......except that one time I did it while the engine was running.
Got one too tight and burned an exhaust valve......which is why I now do it on cold engines !!
Pretty simple and ZERO oil spray!
6sal6
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I used POLY rocker nuts with allen set srews from Speedway . did not turn them 1/2 turn after the push rod stopped turning . Worked perfect no rocker noise engine idled right now no oil splash either . Do you guys know if some one makes a clear plastic distributor cap ? would have made it eaiser to go through 1-8 looking at the rotor as it moved with the remote starter
Last edited by mrputz1 (11/18/2017 6:25 PM)
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mrputz1 wrote:
. did not turn them 1/2 turn after the push rod stopped turning .
Hmmmmmmmmmmm....be careful to not over rev it. The lifters are ALREADY "pumped-up" so the next step is possible piston to valve collision!
Jus say'in.
Glad you gett'in it back on the road though. That's where these old pony cars should be........on-the-road-again!!
6sal6
Last edited by 6sally6 (11/18/2017 9:39 PM)
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Yeah, you've got to turn them at least 1/4 turn past zero or you're going to have issues, especially as things wear a little bit.
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MachTJ wrote:
A lot of different things can cause the lobes to wear off the cams or dish the lifters out. Right now the quick go to answer for cam manufacturers is improper break in with oil that does not have the correct additives. But yea chebbies have been eating cams for alot of years.
In the mid 70's I worked the parts counter for the mechanics at a Chevy dealer. I sold a lot of cams!
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Huskinhano wrote:
MachTJ wrote:
A lot of different things can cause the lobes to wear off the cams or dish the lifters out. Right now the quick go to answer for cam manufacturers is improper break in with oil that does not have the correct additives. But yea chebbies have been eating cams for alot of years.
In the mid 70's I workers also ted the parts counter for the mechanics at a Chevy dealer. I sold a lot of cams!
You better believe it chevy cams suck then as the lifter s did also . Been there done it
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if you use a high volume oil pump never rev the engine when the oil is thick . You are inviting a disaster . The dist gear will strip the cam shaft gear eventually . been there especially when the dist gear is steel
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Finished Running great Calif car mfd in Milpitas NO RUST almost every thing replaced. Its for sale now .408-691-0210 $16900. It was a project for my Grand son and Grand pa to work together .Call me for all the details .
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mrputz1 wrote:
if you use a high volume oil pump never rev the engine when the oil is thick . You are inviting a disaster . The dist gear will strip the cam shaft gear eventually . been there especially when the dist gear is steel
Yet another reason to NEVER run a high volume oil pump. SBFs have a good oiling system. I've yet to see one that needed a high volume oil pump. If you're going to rev past 6,500 you might want to shim the bypass spring, otherwise just check the clearances in the pump and do a quick debur job and run a stock pump. Remember all you need is 10psi of oil pressure per 1,000 RPM. A stock pump typically puts out double that. As for volume, with a standard volume pump running down the 1/4 mile you will suck almost the entire pan through the system by the end of the track. Moving that kind of oil, clearly volume is not an issue.
High volume pumps also take more power to drive, and as noted put additional stress on the distributor gear and drive shaft (ever seen one of these twisted up like a swizel stick?).
More is not always better, and in fact often its worse, and this is a prime example.
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