MS wrote:

cj428mach wrote:

I'm hoping for some help here, I have a 37 Ford that had S197 front disc, and explorer rear disc brakes, with a brake booster and corvette 1 1/8" master cylinder. I'm godzilla swapping it and also had to modifiy the frame Xmember for more room which doesn't provide room for the brake booster anymore. I also swapped in a stock set of 1940 Ford hydraulic clutch/brake pedals. 

This leaves me looking for a manual brake master cylinder for disc/disc, I assume a 1" bore, with the ports on the opposite side of vintage mustangs/ford.  

Your description of the required master cylinder could be a Corvette unit from 1967 or a 2000 Mustang V6, non traction control unit.

Thanks for the information. I think the aluminum one I have now is based off the corvette one and is rather bulky through out the body. The 2000 Mustang v6 one is intriquing because I actually have a 99-04 Mustang v6 parts car. How would I deal with the issue of the depth of the pushrod in the piston? I assume since its a power master cylinder that the bore for the push rod isn't very deep or am I wrong on this? I may have to pull it off tonight and investigate. Do these newer style master cylinders have residual valves?

Thank you
 

kardad wrote:

BobE:
Do you have any photos of the finished product in your 66? Did you lower the master cylinder or leave it and the stock location?

Did everyone miss the fact that CJ428Mach is putting a 7.3 Godzilla motor and 5-speed in a 64 Falcon for his daughter? I'm extremely jealous, that will be a BEAST. All of my boys got Jeeps with 4.0 6cyl

I didn't want to go Coyote because I figured it would be too wide and I'd have a nightmare on brakes/steering. Guess what its still a nightmare on brakes/steering. 


 

MS wrote:

The hydroboost has a curved pedal rod that will move the pin about 3/4” lower than stock.
That changes the pedal ratio from 6:1 stock to a little over 4:1.
That is the change that the MustangSteve vacuum power booster retrofit uses. I have been experimenting on 65 Mustang with moving the pedal pivot up as high as possible in the car and adding a section to the pedal to increase the distance between the pedal pivot and the pedal pin. That moves the pin lower and puts the foot contact plate back down to stock position. It will also help reduce pedal ratio. The 98 pedal is closer to 3:1, so any change you can add will help. Do not go with less than 3:1 brake pedal ratio.
As you know, the clutch pedal has to be modified similarly. By relocating the bearing kit as high as possible on the pedal support, the clutch pedal can be moved upward with the brake pedal. Around 1/2” higher is max. Then, shorten the distance between the quadrant and the clutch pivot bearing, then lengthen the clutch pedal length between the foot contact plate and the pivot. This will increase the clutch pedal length, giving a more effective clutch pedal ratio, but less travel for the cable. Luckily, in stock configuration, the clutch pedal pulls the cable far farther than needed, so this mod will help with clutch pedal leg effort and still pull the cable the required 1” to properly operate a diaphragm type pressure plate.

The Falcon has more room under the cowl to work with than a Mustang, so you might be able to get it closer to what you need than in a Mustang. Just work within two parameters. At least 3:1 ratio on brakes and clutch cable must be able to pull 1”. You don’t have to have free travel like a z-bar needs, so every movement of the clutch pedal is translated to movement of the cable.

On a side note, be sure to use a FORD throwout bearing. Anything else and you will get to replace it in a short time.

The brake pedal rod on the Cobra boosters appears to be stra

I swapped in the 1" master cylinder and i can say there was a noticeable increase in braking power. I probably still have some bleeding to do as I didn't have a helper. I bench bled the master cylinder and managed to bleed the rear brakes a few times with a ratchet strap but after seeing not a single bubble of air I didn't bother to bleed the fronts.

I have some other mods to do on the lift and I'll see if I can round up a helper to properly bleed the brakes. Thanks for all the help guys.

The 1" master cylinder is going to do what? increase pressure? the pedal seems to go down easy enough with the booster.

MS wrote:

I love that car!!!

Whar bore size is your master cylinder, and what is the pedal ratio?
Does it have a booster? Those are fanrastic brakes when tte system is set up right.
You are better off with the original Ford pads than with anything off the local shelf.

Thanks everybody for the kind words. I fell in love with 37's when I was just a little kid and believe it or not this is my first car. I bought her at the age of 13 when working summers at the family business, I'm just now getting her where I want at the age of 34.

If memory serves the master cylinder is 1 1/8" corvette style master cylinder, and the booster is a small 7" dual diaphragm booster.  I have no idea what the pedal ratio is, the pedals were provided by Pete and Jakes Hot Rods. I haven't checked vacuum but its running a Boss 351 with EFI and a George Pence 351CJ camshaft on 114 LSA, so it should produce pretty good vacuum for the booster.

The rear brake setup is Explorer discs.

I did find out the other day day that the proportioning valve that goes to the rear was completely turned all the way one direction. The sticker on the handle has fallen off so I don't know which way to turn the valve but it would only go counter clockwise so I turned it a few turns and will see what that does. In theory that would be taking away from the front brakes but I guess the valve could operate backwards.

MS wrote:

Please report results when you get it completed.

The 3/16" spacers worked on my setup to get everything lined up. I finished the install this weekend and took it for a short drive and everything held up fine. While the new 12.5" setup is much better than the 11" granada based setup I had I must say the performance was a little lacking. I actually reused the brake pads and rotors off the parts car and that might be where the problem is.  I was expecting similar braking to my 03 Cobra if not better as my 37 weighs much less.

Surprisingly with my 17" torque thrusts the caliper was wanting to hit the spokes of the rim, putting the partially worn pads on, using my 3/16" home made spacers, and using a 1/8" wheel spacer I had laying around gave me some much needed clearance.

I removed the MS supplied washers and cut my own 1 piece spacers out of 3/16" steel which seems to have it pretty close on the one wheel I tested it on. I had to remove the spacers to powder coat them black and should be able to assemble tomorrow.

MS wrote:

The bolts will be close, but not hit.
Did you install new bearing races in the hubs?
If you are certain everything is bolted up tight, as designed, then the hubs must be different. Per my design, your bracket will not be perfectly centered about the rotor, but will be where it cannot rub.

Another thought. Are you using factory MustangII spindles or V8 65-73 spindles?

Yes, new bearing races and hubs.

I am using Mustang II spindles. It looks like I just need to make some spacers.

Chaplin wrote:

Do you have another caliper bracket you can try? I had a similar problem when I installed my MS brackets for the Cobra brake conversion on my 65- the rotor was hitting the caliper bracket. I was using all new parts and double checked the hubs, rotors, and all measurements and all looked good. Out of desperation/exasperation, I bolted up a different caliper bracket that I had laying around and all worked perfectly. Both caliper brackets- the one that hit and the one that worked perfectly- were factory brackets, so there must be a small variance even among the factory stuff.

Thanks for the reply. I did try the caliper bracket off the other side and rotor to double check it with no luck. I assume the rotor should be centered in the bracket opening so I'm at least a 1/4" off one direction.

The supplied bolt that bolts the MS spindel bracket to the MS caliper bracket is also just barely clearing the rotor. Maybe a few thousands of an inch, is this normal?

MS wrote:

I do not have dimensions to compare to yours. If you bolted the rotor to the hub and the caliper bracket to the MS bracket, how much interference would you have? Are you using A12 and A13 bearings?

The only variable is I can imagine is the hub. I have never used that hub, but I would think it would be same as 70 Mustang drum hubs, which fit perfectly.

Your rotor is too far inboard, right? Did you buy a new rotor, or are you using the original from the 2006 GT. Original caliper and bracket taken directly off the donor car?

I have more than an extra washers length interference. I added another washer on top of the ones supplied in the kit and it spaces the rotor out just about where the inside edge of caliper bracket should be (the bracket got worn down by the rotor as seen in last picture).

I am using brand new A12 and A13 bearings and races.

That is correct, the rotor is in to far. The rotors, calipers, etc were all taken off a wrecked 06 GT mustang by me and all parts are FOMOCO.

Do you by chance have a 65-73 Mustang that you can measure the length of to compare to mine?

extra post so I can post pics