And if that don't bother you!

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I hate to say it but they are really pushing electric vehicles. Somewhere in the next 20 years that may be the only way to drive a classic car.





 

Last edited by wsinsle (8/13/2021 5:33 AM)

New cars can’t even be produced now without “chips”.

I’d convert my car to propane before electric would ever happen.

There’s always moonshine!

wsinsle wrote:

And if that don't bother you!

Follow the Build — Revolt Systems

I hate to say it but they are really pushing electric vehicles. Somewhere in the next 20 years that may be the only way to drive a classic car.





 

Never going to happen.  There will always be gasoline.  The more electric cars there are the less demand there will be for gasoline and the longer the oil will last.  Already, they claimed we would be out of oil by now decades ago, but they kept finding more oil and figuring out new tech to pull more oil from wells they thought were dry.  There's more oil known about now than at any point in human history. 

Here's the best example: when jet aircraft came along did propeller driven aircraft disappear?  No, and in fact you can still buy leaded gasoline for aircraft despite the fact that we haven't been able to buy leaded gas for cars for over 4 decades.  What happened was the commercial aircraft and high end private aircraft became jets.  Most private aircraft are still propeller driven due to cost, and you can still buy brand new propeller craft today despite it having been over 8 decades since the first jets flew.  Even the military still flies propeller transports.  So, sure, public transportation may eventually go to electric or more likely some form of hybrid drive (like trains), but the private sector will remain a mix along with the military for the foreseeable future, at least the next 100 years.  Old vehicles remain in service for a very long time, and despite what all the crunchy granola people think internal combustion is going to be with us likely forever.  Its going to take a lot more than some better batteries or faster charging to kill IC.  Its going to take a sea change like fusion power that can't be weaponized.
 

Battery dies at 30,000 feet?

Hmmmm🤔

TKOPerformance wrote:

wsinsle wrote:

And if that don't bother you!

Follow the Build — Revolt Systems

I hate to say it but they are really pushing electric vehicles. Somewhere in the next 20 years that may be the only way to drive a classic car.





 

Never going to happen.  There will always be gasoline.  The more electric cars there are the less demand there will be for gasoline and the longer the oil will last.  Already, they claimed we would be out of oil by now decades ago, but they kept finding more oil and figuring out new tech to pull more oil from wells they thought were dry.  There's more oil known about now than at any point in human history. 

Here's the best example: when jet aircraft came along did propeller driven aircraft disappear?  No, and in fact you can still buy leaded gasoline for aircraft despite the fact that we haven't been able to buy leaded gas for cars for over 4 decades.  What happened was the commercial aircraft and high end private aircraft became jets.  Most private aircraft are still propeller driven due to cost, and you can still buy brand new propeller craft today despite it having been over 8 decades since the first jets flew.  Even the military still flies propeller transports.  So, sure, public transportation may eventually go to electric or more likely some form of hybrid drive (like trains), but the private sector will remain a mix along with the military for the foreseeable future, at least the next 100 years.  Old vehicles remain in service for a very long time, and despite what all the crunchy granola people think internal combustion is going to be with us likely forever.  Its going to take a lot more than some better batteries or faster charging to kill IC.  Its going to take a sea change like fusion power that can't be weaponized.
 

I'm sure I overstated on 20 years but it won't be 100 years, don't think so. The infrastructure bill they are passing includes paying for quick charge stations across the country. Next will be a carbon tax on gasoline. They will start at $5 then pass a $2 tax and everyone will say we got lucky for such a cheep tax. Next will be a tax on gasoline cars to supplement electric cars and soon no gas cars sold. Your local gas stations will start closing pumps for lack of sales and cost to maintain. The government already forced the closing of multiple coal burning generating stations that I thought would not close in my lifetime. This is not a rant on the government just the way things are going. Boy it's a slow day.

 

wsinsle wrote:

TKOPerformance wrote:

wsinsle wrote:

And if that don't bother you!

Follow the Build — Revolt Systems

I hate to say it but they are really pushing electric vehicles. Somewhere in the next 20 years that may be the only way to drive a classic car.





 

Never going to happen.  There will always be gasoline.  The more electric cars there are the less demand there will be for gasoline and the longer the oil will last.  Already, they claimed we would be out of oil by now decades ago, but they kept finding more oil and figuring out new tech to pull more oil from wells they thought were dry.  There's more oil known about now than at any point in human history. 

Here's the best example: when jet aircraft came along did propeller driven aircraft disappear?  No, and in fact you can still buy leaded gasoline for aircraft despite the fact that we haven't been able to buy leaded gas for cars for over 4 decades.  What happened was the commercial aircraft and high end private aircraft became jets.  Most private aircraft are still propeller driven due to cost, and you can still buy brand new propeller craft today despite it having been over 8 decades since the first jets flew.  Even the military still flies propeller transports.  So, sure, public transportation may eventually go to electric or more likely some form of hybrid drive (like trains), but the private sector will remain a mix along with the military for the foreseeable future, at least the next 100 years.  Old vehicles remain in service for a very long time, and despite what all the crunchy granola people think internal combustion is going to be with us likely forever.  Its going to take a lot more than some better batteries or faster charging to kill IC.  Its going to take a sea change like fusion power that can't be weaponized.
 

I'm sure I overstated on 20 years but it won't be 100 years, don't think so. The infrastructure bill they are passing includes paying for quick charge stations across the country. Next will be a carbon tax on gasoline. They will start at $5 then pass a $2 tax and everyone will say we got lucky for such a cheep tax. Next will be a tax on gasoline cars to supplement electric cars and soon no gas cars sold. Your local gas stations will start closing pumps for lack of sales and cost to maintain. The government already forced the closing of multiple coal burning generating stations that I thought would not close in my lifetime. This is not a rant on the government just the way things are going. Boy it's a slow day.

 

Consider that the US military still flies B52s.  Their current aircrews are the grandchildren of their first aircrews.  Those aircraft will be in service for at least the next 50 years based on US military projections.  Even jet aircraft still burn fossil fuels.  All transoceanic freighters burn Diesel.  The US fleet is mostly nuclear, but you can't put that kind of technology in private hands because all that has to happen is a terrorist group gets hold of a reactor and now its a weapon (nuclear, dirty bomb, etc.).  Trains also still burn Diesel.  They use a hybrid drive system, but the power is still generated by Diesel burning IC engines.  Cars schamrs, that's the infrastructure that has to be changed and its not going to happen.  Aircraft, trains, and freighters (to say nothing of tractor trailers) are what moves EVERYTHING in America.  Without a viable alternative that's not changing, and that's what keeps the oil infrastructure alive and well and prices reasonable.  Look at what's happening to the CPI and inflation now with less than a $1 bump in Diesel fuel prices.  A $2-$5/gallon tax on fuel?  There'd be mutiny.  If the politicians were lucky they'd just be burned in effigy. 

You can't really look at what the government does and predict the future.  That infrastructure bill could be largely undone by another bill in 2022 or 2024, and that doesn't even take into consideration what States can do if they don't want to comply with Federal policy.  That's what politics has become.  One party is in power and passes a bunch of stuff and in 2-4 years the party in power changes and undoes most of what the previous party did. 

I would expect that CA might turn into this dystopian electric future, but you really see a future where Texas taxes gasoline at $2-5/gallon?  Me thinks not. 
 

I have worked in the electrical field since my teens.

I don’t have a problem with electric technology, as mentioned earlier the infrastructure to charge and service will be costly.

Tax payers will end up paying for it.

I always find it interesting when the news and experts reference a country that has done this conversion with great results.

I laugh, not because that country is successful, it’s how many times larger is the United States by comparison.
Not to mention the geography and variety of climate  conditions, distance, etc.

Then there are the people who don’t realize all of the resources required including the fossil fuels to mine and transport and produce the electricity to make the components that will eventually end up in an electric car, solar panel, even the components to monitor and regulate the electricity in an an efficient manner.

Finally, who will be able to afford to purchase these vehicles?

Thought we were supposed to have flying cars already like the Jetsons.

If you look at start to finish impact, considering our current infrastructure in regards to power production, electric cars aren't helping anything.  In fact they may actually be hurting.  The biggest issue is the mining operations (all done by heavy equipped running on Diesel fuel and without emissions controls) to get the materials to make the batteries.  Elements like lithium do not exist on Earth in large concentrations, so to get the materials needed to make a single battery pack requires mining thousands of tons of ore.This operation also requires strip mining which destroys habitat, encourages soil erosion, and creates toxic runoff.

Then there's power production.  A lot of power is still produced in the US via fossil fuels. Some is produced by nuclear, but those plants are all now 4 decades old and there is still no national solution to storing radioactive waste.  Those plants store it on site.  Its contained, but its dangerous for hundreds of years, and may not always be safely contained.  You could create your own power using solar, but as mentioned those solar panels had to be created somehow as well.  We keep hearing about alternative energy, but those projects always seem to get shot down over environmental concerns (the irony). 

I don't think its tangential to talk about this stuff, because the primary reason anyone would want to convert their classic to electric power is to think they are saving the planet.  There needs to be real discussion about what you would really be doing.  These issues have become one sided in the media, with too many people pursuing feel good policies rather than effective ones.  I don't really care about electric cars, or whether or not anyone wants to own one, but I am constantly infuriated by this air of "I'm better than you" that you often get from the people who drive them, and mostly because I know its based on ignorance instead of the enlightenment on which they think its based

Now, to be a bit tangential, we'll never have flying cars.  Most people can't control a vehicle that only moves in two axes.  No way we are adding a third.  Imagine if every car wreck was an air to air collision.  On the other hand it would do wonders for population control...

TKOPerformance wrote:

         Now, to be a bit tangential, we'll never have flying cars.  Most people can't control a vehicle that only moves in two axes.  No way we are adding a third.  Imagine if every car wreck was an air to air collision.  On the other hand it would do wonders for population control...

  

I'm not to sure about that. There are a lot of flying cars being invented now for the experimental market. I don't think they will attract many people that are not already pilots. If the air traffic gets too busy they will be controlled by ATC. They have already mandated ADS-B, OUT in addition to the transponder. It's a device that give the controllers more information about your flight and a visual position to anybody that has ADS-B IN. They will be very expensive.      
 

Flying cars? Where is my jetpack?

https://youtu.be/brr4RNGlts0

Raymond_B wrote:

I love how we went from a crate electric motor to flying cars, LOL.

If we're entering a fantasy world where there are no consequences and all problems have miraculously been solved its actually a pretty logical progression. 

Fossil fuels come from algae.  They originated in the carboniferous period where there was no polar ice and the Earth was mostly covered by water excepting the single large continent of Pangea.  The idea it came from dinosaurs was a red herring. 

The eventual future of electric power is hopefully fusion, but we are still in the infancy of the curve to producing sustainable, safe plasma fusion reactions.  One of my best friends works on the reactor at Princeton.  There are several other facilities around the world, and there is a lot of collaboration, but there are large barriers in technology and our understanding of practical physics.  We should keep investing in the tech because its shown promise, but we are decades away from practical applications. 

Solar energy is a great source of power, but the issue is the best cells are now 10-15% efficient.  So much solar energy is lost as waste due to cell inefficiency.  Of course, this is better than 30 years ago when the cells were only 5% efficient, but it also doesn't speak highly of efficiency improvements in the near future.