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1/10/2023 12:35 PM  #1


Oil Preference for 289 - 20W50 diesel oil?

I have been reading up on using 20W50 diesel oil(higher zinc content) for old V8s. Does anyone have experience with the benefits or trade-offs using heavier-weight oil?

I have the original 289 in my 68 that has been balanced and blueprinted with a mild cam. 

 

1/10/2023 12:47 PM  #2


Re: Oil Preference for 289 - 20W50 diesel oil?

I just add a bottle of Camshield or an other kind of zinc additive to my regular oil changes.


68 coupe - 351W, 4R70W, 9" 3.25 -- 65 convertible - 289 4v, C4, 8" 3.00
 

1/10/2023 12:49 PM  #3


Re: Oil Preference for 289 - 20W50 diesel oil?

Nope,  but a bunch of people use Mobile 1 15w-50 with good results. It has plenty of the good stuff for our flat tappet cams.


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
 

1/10/2023 1:41 PM  #4


Re: Oil Preference for 289 - 20W50 diesel oil?

Diesel oil no longer has as high a zinc content as it used to.  I continue to see this claimed, but the information is almost 20 years out of date.  Diesel oil continued to have higher ZDDP concentration for years after it was curtailed in gasoline oil formulations, but just as the sulphur content of Diesel fuel was curtailed, and light duty Diesels were required to meet emissions; ZDDP in the oil was also reduced. 

Additionally there is no benefit to running oil that heavy in a typical street engine.  You would be fine with 5W30 or 10W30.  The oil standards used when these cars were new are now obsolete, but when converted translate to a 30 weight oil.  If your weather tends to be hotter I'd go 10W30.  If it gets colder use a 5W30.  I've run 5W30 in my 289 for over a decade now with zero issues.  If you have a flat tappet cam I would advise adding some ZDDP containing additive.  I simply use STP.  Cheap and effective. 

Now synthetic oil is a whole different animal.  If you poured a 30W conventional oil and a 30W synthetic oil side by side you'd see a marked difference, especially over a range of temperatures.  Synthetic is always going to appear thinner, particularly when cold.  This has to do with how the manufacturers chooses to grade their oil.  When they say its 5W30 it just means it passed the tests tor those oil weights.  Could it also pass the tests for other weights?  Probably.  Synthetic is really, really good oil.  Point being, is there a marked difference between 5W30 and 15W50 or 5W20 in terms of thermal stability, pressure handling, etc.?  Probably not.  I've seen guys run 2 quarts of 0W20 in crate motor racing classes with a claimer rule.  If you do the math by half track the pan is dry, yet that engine runs like that all season long with complete reliability.  Most of those engines are supposed to run 5W30, etc.  I would never recommend doing anything like that on the street, but such an extreme example points to how largely meaningless oil weight becomes when talking about synthetic. 

There are two cautions I'll give on synthetic:

1.  I've had switching to synthetic on high mileage engines cause oil leaks that weren't there before.  I've never had a definitive explanation as to why that is, but my two best hunches are that either the oil molecules are consistently smaller, or there isn't enough additive to replace what the heavier molecules in conventional oil (like parafin, etc.) contribute to keeping seals pliable.  If the engine has been run trouble free on conventional for years and has some mileage on it I would advise sticking to a conventional oil (5W30 or 10W30) and adding ZDDP if you have a flat tappet cam. 

2. Don't try an break in an engine on synthetic.  Use a dedicated break in oil or conventional oil.  Synthetic is so slick that the rings likely won't seat.  You need some friction to break the engine in properly.  Once its broken in, by all means switch over.

Last edited by TKOPerformance (1/11/2023 5:18 PM)

 

1/10/2023 3:02 PM  #5


Re: Oil Preference for 289 - 20W50 diesel oil?

If you're looking for ZDDP, Valvoline has a couple of offerings. I've been using their 10w-30 (I agree with the others that 20w-50 is not needed) "Race" oil in my 427w and love it! I get it from Walmart and save almost $3.00 a qt vs Summit.

 

1/10/2023 3:37 PM  #6


Re: Oil Preference for 289 - 20W50 diesel oil?


65 Fastback, 351W, 5-speed, 4 wheel discs, 9" rear,  R&C Front End.
 

1/10/2023 3:52 PM  #7


Re: Oil Preference for 289 - 20W50 diesel oil?

 

1/10/2023 4:34 PM  #8


Re: Oil Preference for 289 - 20W50 diesel oil?

If it was blueprinted, do you have the bearing clearances for rods and mains? That would be the lace to start for oil weight. If they are within normal spec, I would stick with a 10W-30. Do you have a mechanical gauge for hot and cold oil readings? 

The Motortrend article goes with TKO.  


John  -- 67 Mustang Coupe 390 5 speed
 

1/11/2023 7:48 AM  #9


Re: Oil Preference for 289 - 20W50 diesel oil?

We talk about oil here and on other gas engine forums, but I really learned a ton when I got into Diesels.  Here's some more info on gas vs. Diesel oils I've learned over the years. 

Gasoline oils in the '60s used an obsolete SAE spec.  In the last 25 years we started with the SH rating, which had 1,200ppm ZDDP.  That was lowered to 1,000 in the SJ spec oils, and 800 in the SM spec oils.  Current SN spec oil is 600-800.  If you have a flat tappet cam you want 1,200 and 1,400-1,500 for breaking in a flat tappet cam. 

ZDDP was curtailed in oil because it negatively effects the function of catalytic converters.  This was a gas engine problem until first CA started implementing standards on Diesel engines, then in '04 the EPA added Tier 4 which made the issue Federal.  This is why all Diesels now have catalytic converters, EGR systems, and DPF systems.

Current Diesel oil spec is CJ-4, and many Diesel oils contain 1,200ppm of ZDDP under this spec, though this is considerably lower than what they used to contain up to 2006 in the CI-4 spec.  However, that's not the whole story.  The ZDDP in Diesel oils isn't the same as the ZDDP used in older gas spec oils.  The operating conditions of a Diesel are also radically different than a gas engine and the additive package is formulated for those criteria, not gas engine criteria.  Consider your high performance car might have 10.5:1 compression  The average Diesel in 22:1, and that's before you consider the effect of the turbo.  Diesel fuel burns hotter, creates soot, creates more NOX, and creates more acid in the oil.  The CJ-4 formulation was also specifically tailored to the requirements ULS (ultra low sulphur) fuel imposed.  The sulphur in the Diesel fuel used to act similarly to how the lead acted in leaded gas; it was a protecting lubricant, though not really of valves as in a gas engine; it was protecting the injectors and injection pumps. The other issue was that removing the sulphur also removed parafin from the fuel.  That parafin kept seals in the fuel system pliable and prevented failures, as well as helping lubricate fuel system parts.  Initially older Diesels had real issues on ULSD, but the fuel companies subtly changed the chemistry until they managed to get older Diesels to run just fine on it.  Prior to that guys ran all kinds of fuel additives to prevent costly failures (the best IMO was a quart of good old nonsynthetic TWC-3 two stroke oil at each fill up).  Now even off road Diesel is ULS.  Its just cheaper because there's no excise tax on it. 

As usual I digress, but the thing you need to understand about modern oils is that no new car has been built with a flat tappet cam since the '90s.  Beginning in the late '90s they even went to factory roller rockers.  Even Diesels have been running roller cans since the early '00s, and though most don't use roller rockers the 4 valve per cylinder arrangement running rocker bridges loads the rocker very differently.  Point being, nothing new needs 1,200ppm of ZDDP. 

My ultimate thought on engine oil is this: if I'm looking to save money on maintenance buying cheaper oil isn't how I'm going to do it.  Oil, regardless the type, is cheap.  Engines are expensive.  My advice remains run a proper weight gasoline engine spec oil and add ZDDP as needed to achieve 1,200ppm if you have a flat tappet cam.

 

1/11/2023 9:22 AM  #10


Re: Oil Preference for 289 - 20W50 diesel oil?

Thanks for all of the great information. There's a lot more to oil than I realized.

Although my 289 was blueprinted, the previous owner that had it done didn't have any specs. I am going to try out the Mobile 1 15W-50 for this oil change and consider 10W-30 for my next oil change based on the oil pressure readings I get in the car.

     Thread Starter
 

1/11/2023 4:36 PM  #11


Re: Oil Preference for 289 - 20W50 diesel oil?

Speaking of 'oil pressure'.........
I have one of those really neat "adjustable" CVR hickey-doos that go on the back of the instrument panel. It supplies the voltage for the oil pressure gauge and water temp (I believe)  Although I had good oil pressure with my last engine build these SBF are notorious for running just fine on low oil pressure.
Before when at a stop sign sometimes the pressure would drop
waaaaa low and skeer the who-do out of the driver(me!)
My fix was........to adjust the reading on the oil pressure gauge to read like a 'Shivel-lay' and run about 20+ PSI at idle !
Call me krazy....butt-eye feel good!!!
6sal6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

1/11/2023 4:52 PM  #12


Re: Oil Preference for 289 - 20W50 diesel oil?

SBFs have a good oil system.  Typically if the clearances were right when it was built and the engine is healthy they need nothing fancy to live a long time.  Conventional wisdom says that such an engine needs no more than 10psi of oil pressure per 1,000RPM.  So if you've got 60psi at 6,000 RPM its fine.  At idle you should show 20-30psi, that's normal warm idle oil pressure, and you may see more like 70-80psi at max RPM.  Again, perfectly normal.  With 5W30 in it I see hot idle oil pressure of 20-25psi and 60psi at 5,000RPM when I shift.  Good enough.  Standard volume/pressure pump. 

 

Board footera


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