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Who will try one? Although I did not see price mentioned anywhere.
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Good article, thanks for posting. I think I will live with the whine.
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Just goes to show just about anything can be made if someone wants it bad enough.
I saw this yesterday. I also saw the price point. $2500. I would guess that would go down somewhat if it catches on.
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I'm pretty sure there's a couple of guys who had gear whine on their 8.8 that couldn't be made quiet. Twenty-five hunert bux? I'll stick with my low buck 9 inch.
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The merits depend on whether or not you view the dropout case as a benefit. Most of the rears I have worked on, and most of those I own are not drop outs. To me, this may be of benefit to a professional racer where this manages to satisfy the requirement of an original equipment rear in a car that had the 8.8 from the factory. Beyond that, if you are starting from scratch a 9" is far cheaper to build. To me a dropout only makes life easier if you don't have a lift. Doing gear setup on a non dropout with a lift is easy as pie. Crawling around on the ground its a PITA.
In my experience gear whine in most rears is caused by one of 3 things:
1.) cheap gears
2.) improperly set up gears
3.) a tweaked housing from a previous failure where there is too much runout of the carrier
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I agree the whine is terrible. I have gone through five rear ends with only ONE that did not make noise. It was built by Phil at 9” Nodular. Then I sold it to Ramses, and he never drives his car. So, the last one I bought had those new design Stealth gears and it still makes noise. It was built by Strange.
I quit counting how much money I have blown on 9” rear ends. My car sounds like a dump truck as far as gear noise, and I hate it.
I did put a chinese Speedway 3.50 traction lock nodular case in my 69, and it is quiet. Maybe they figured it out. The yoke seal failed in 500 miles, but a new seal fixed it.
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MS…did you read this article as well?
I noticed the part about the yoke runout causing vibration issues.
Last edited by Nos681 (10/18/2023 7:48 PM)
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Interesting. I am thinking something out of a Hyundai might be the answer
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Guess I got lucky at a swap meet when I found a local guy who builds rear ends. He had exactly what I was looking for - 9 inch 3.25 Trac-Lok with Mopar spring perches welded on to fit my 68 width. It has been quiet and trouble free for over 12 years now.
I like the aircraft quality safety job on that rear end - .032 wire - 28 turns per inch - nice. Even bent the cutoff ends in so no one gets poked in the finger.
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Once again....LOVE MY 8.8!
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Ron68 wrote:
Guess I got lucky at a swap meet when I found a local guy who builds rear ends. He had exactly what I was looking for - 9 inch 3.25 Trac-Lok with Mopar spring perches welded on to fit my 68 width. It has been quiet and trouble free for over 12 years now.
I like the aircraft quality safety job on that rear end - .032 wire - 28 turns per inch - nice. Even bent the cutoff ends in so no one gets poked in the finger.
What bolts were safety wired? Bolts coming loose has never been an issue on any I have owned.
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MS wrote:
I agree the whine is terrible. I have gone through five rear ends with only ONE that did not make noise. It was built by Phil at 9” Nodular. Then I sold it to Ramses, and he never drives his car. So, the last one I bought had those new design Stealth gears and it still makes noise. It was built by Strange.
I quit counting how much money I have blown on 9” rear ends. My car sounds like a dump truck as far as gear noise, and I hate it.
I did put a chinese Speedway 3.50 traction lock nodular case in my 69, and it is quiet. Maybe they figured it out. The yoke seal failed in 500 miles, but a new seal fixed it.
To be 100% honest it was your troubles that piqued my interest in this setup. But it sounds awfully pricey.
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MS wrote:
Ron68 wrote:
Guess I got lucky at a swap meet when I found a local guy who builds rear ends. He had exactly what I was looking for - 9 inch 3.25 Trac-Lok with Mopar spring perches welded on to fit my 68 width. It has been quiet and trouble free for over 12 years now.
I like the aircraft quality safety job on that rear end - .032 wire - 28 turns per inch - nice. Even bent the cutoff ends in so no one gets poked in the finger.
What bolts were safety wired? Bolts coming loose has never been an issue on any I have owned.
The link on the first posting
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Our favorite lieutenant could have used some of that safety war. Or even just a bit of Loctite. Seeing those ring gear bolts safety wired is a first for me, and I love safety wire.
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Much better than the Speedway in my 69. They used those gold colored hardware store washers for some unknown reason. Those things are soft and were deformed. I have no faith they will stay put, but I bet those safety wired bolts hang on.
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I've always used red Locktite after cleaning the bolts and bolt holes thoroughly with Brakekleen. Never had an issue. However, safety wire is really never a bad idea. I always safety wire the oil pump and oil pump pickup bolts in any engine build. A 1/16" cobalt bit will drill even an ARP bolt if you take your time.
Last edited by TKOPerformance (10/21/2023 5:37 AM)
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Mmm...safety war.
PS: Ron, don't count the twists per inch.
Last edited by RPM, aka Bearing Bob (10/20/2023 9:22 AM)
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Well.........it's not on an aircraft.......but...........send it.
Last edited by Ron68 (10/20/2023 8:12 PM)
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TKOPerformance wrote:
I've always used red Locktite after cleaning the bolts and bolt holes thoroughly with Brakekleen. New had an issue. However, safety wire is really never a bad idea. I always safety wire the oil pump and oil pump pickup bolts in any engine build. A 1/16" cobalt bit will drill even an ARP bolt if you take your time.
Total waste of time. Torque the bolts and move on.
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MS wrote:
TKOPerformance wrote:
I've always used red Locktite after cleaning the bolts and bolt holes thoroughly with Brakekleen. New had an issue. However, safety wire is really never a bad idea. I always safety wire the oil pump and oil pump pickup bolts in any engine build. A 1/16" cobalt bit will drill even an ARP bolt if you take your time.
Total waste of time. Torque the bolts and move on.
I agree that the chance is extremely small that anything goes wrong there, and I built engines for years without doing it. However, in the extremely remote chance a bolt backs out the engine is likely junk before you can say "Oh @#%%!" For all of about 30 minutes worth of extra work? My time is very valuable, but not in line with the cost of an engine.
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TKOPerformance wrote:
MS wrote:
TKOPerformance wrote:
I've always used red Locktite after cleaning the bolts and bolt holes thoroughly with Brakekleen. New had an issue. However, safety wire is really never a bad idea. I always safety wire the oil pump and oil pump pickup bolts in any engine build. A 1/16" cobalt bit will drill even an ARP bolt if you take your time.
Total waste of time. Torque the bolts and move on.
I agree that the chance is extremely small that anything goes wrong there, and I built engines for years without doing it. However, in the extremely remote chance a bolt backs out the engine is likely junk before you can say "Oh @#%%!" For all of about 30 minutes worth of extra work? My time is very valuable, but not in line with the cost of an engine.
In my opinion, drilling through the head of a 1/4” bolt will lessen its clamping ability. I have never heard of an oil pump coming apart. Heck, you and I are probably the only people around that even check the torque on those bolts when installing a new pump. Since there is no gasket to compress, you rely on the stretched condition of the bolt to hold the torque. And they just NEVER back out.
If your logic holds, you should safety wire all the lug nuts on your wheels. They see alot more stress trying to undo the nuts than an oil pump cover would ever see.
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Not an argument for or against but AN hardware is available cross drilled down to the smallest filister head screws. That’s aircraft though where consequences are not forgiving and much more serious.
On my 68 the front spindle and calipers bolts were safety wired, it was like that when I got it so don’t know if that’s factory or added somewhere in its previous ownership .
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MS wrote:
TKOPerformance wrote:
MS wrote:
Total waste of time. Torque the bolts and move on.I agree that the chance is extremely small that anything goes wrong there, and I built engines for years without doing it. However, in the extremely remote chance a bolt backs out the engine is likely junk before you can say "Oh @#%%!" For all of about 30 minutes worth of extra work? My time is very valuable, but not in line with the cost of an engine.
In my opinion, drilling through the head of a 1/4” bolt will lessen its clamping ability. I have never heard of an oil pump coming apart. Heck, you and I are probably the only people around that even check the torque on those bolts when installing a new pump. Since there is no gasket to compress, you rely on the stretched condition of the bolt to hold the torque. And they just NEVER back out.
If your logic holds, you should safety wire all the lug nuts on your wheels. They see alot more stress trying to undo the nuts than an oil pump cover would ever see.
Difference is that I rotate my tires periodically and torque the lug nuts. I don't ever drop the oil pan and check those pump bolts. Heh, you are probably right about us being the only people who actually check the torque though..
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Rudi wrote:
Not an argument for or against but AN hardware is available cross drilled down to the smallest filister head screws. That’s aircraft though where consequences are not forgiving and much more serious.
On my 68 the front spindle and calipers bolts were safety wired, it was like that when I got it so don’t know if that’s factory or added somewhere in its previous ownership .
68-73 used safety wire on the two caliper bracket bolts on disc brake spindles. 75-80 Granada had same bolt setup with no factory safety wire. I have never reinstalled safety wire on caliper bolts
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TKOPerformance wrote:
MS wrote:
TKOPerformance wrote:
I agree that the chance is extremely small that anything goes wrong there, and I built engines for years without doing it. However, in the extremely remote chance a bolt backs out the engine is likely junk before you can say "Oh @#%%!" For all of about 30 minutes worth of extra work? My time is very valuable, but not in line with the cost of an engine.
In my opinion, drilling through the head of a 1/4” bolt will lessen its clamping ability. I have never heard of an oil pump coming apart. Heck, you and I are probably the only people around that even check the torque on those bolts when installing a new pump. Since there is no gasket to compress, you rely on the stretched condition of the bolt to hold the torque. And they just NEVER back out.
If your logic holds, you should safety wire all the lug nuts on your wheels. They see alot more stress trying to undo the nuts than an oil pump cover would ever see.Difference is that I rotate my tires periodically and torque the lug nuts. I don't ever drop the oil pan and check those pump bolts. Heh, you are probably right about us being the only people who actually check the torque though..
Ok, then… what about your rod bolts and main cap bolts? And especially the cam thrust plate bolts?
Those never get wired. I have heard of rod bolts letting loose, but usually the failure is along the parting line. Cam thrust plate gets slot of stress.
I still maintain it is a waste of time, especially on an oil pump. Do you safety wire the bolts from the pump to the block? Or between pickup and pump? And God forbid your fuel pump might rattle loose!
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