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5/16/2024 5:43 AM  #1


I took one for the team yesterday

OT:  venting about wheel alignment. 

Anyone have a late model Jeep Cherokee as a daily driver?   My wife does.   

I took it last November to get some new tires on it at 67,835.   After 5 years of her driving it.   The tire shop does a courtesy alignment check, Pretty standard.  Right rear chamber is out of spec by .1 degree.   (If you don't know, weight inside a car can throw it off that much).  Anyways,  I first told the service guy just to leave it, and he guilted me into having it done by replying, " are you really going to put 4 new tires on and not have it aligned? "    Done, in out.    Fast forward to yesterday:

My wife calls me as soon as she gets to work, and says a guy approached her at a traffic light and told her her right wheel looks real funny and she better get it checked out.   So I drive up there and sure enough, you can just look at it and see the chamber of the right rear is tilted inwards.  I take it straight to another branch of the same shop.   The chamber on RR is tilted outwards neg 2.9 degrees and belts are showing on both rear tires on the inner.   First thought...da@@ my wife must have hit something.   They themselves look at it with me on the lift, and we agree there is no obvious sign of damage, nothing bent, no worn parts, nothing out of the ordinary.   Just very unusual.    No choice but to have a new alignment and two new rear tires.   $725.84  ouch!!  Considering I just did this 7419 miles ago.  Left thinking it could be worse...

But, it just isn't sitting right with me.   My wife swore she did not hit or run over anything, and with her driving history, I believe her.  She eats brake pads, but damage, no.   I start researching Jeep Cherokee alignment problems last night.   So if you've read this far, this is where it kind of ties to Mustangs.   

The 14+ Jeep Cherokees have a control arm mount that is slotted.  Much like Ford did to the front for the lower control arm in 67.   But instead of a cam washer, all that is there is a wave lock type washer.   So here is the inherent problem.  Once it has been tinkered with and loosened, it does not want to hold again.    Get where I'm going here?  The guy loosened it back on Nov 7th, to align and did not torque it back down enough to hold its alignment.   I found a TSB about this, and new torque values for those bolts have been made.   Probably even a good idea to replace the wave washer.   

So now I feel cheated.   No way to prove that is what happened, but it's the most likely culprit.   Pissy design!!!  Young techs.  Grrr..    I guess overall through the years I've been pretty lucky so it evens out I suppose it was my time to pay the man.

Disclaimer: no wifes or daughters or techs were yelled at during this process.   It is what it is.

Last edited by Greg B (5/16/2024 5:47 AM)


If multiple things can go wrong, the one that will go wrong will be the one that causes the most damage.
 

5/16/2024 5:59 AM  #2


Re: I took one for the team yesterday

When doing your own work the only person you have to be mad at if something goes awry is yourself.  I let a tire shop mount and balance tires (I research, buy, and bring the tires with me); that's it.  I also drive my wife's DD at least once every week.  Not trying to be unkind, but she simply doesn't notice things I do. 

Now, I agree, no way to prove what happened, but a shop that works on cars should have access to AllData, etc. and be aware of all TSBs for the vehicle they are working on.  I think I'd find another shop for future work. 
 

 

5/16/2024 6:11 AM  #3


Re: I took one for the team yesterday



Here is the before specs on Nov 7th.  After five years of driving and 67000 miles. My gut instinct was to leave this alone.  I should have listened. 



fraction font generator

Here is the before and after yesterday.  Thoughts are how that can cause such severe tire damage in just 7500 miles, (it don't take much). And this is a textbook example of how just 1 thing out of alignment can affect other readings.  I assure you the only thing that was reset yesterday was the right rear chamber.  When putting that back in place, everything else automatically went back into spec.   Wheel alignment would be an interesting career to tech into.    Anyways, now my new worry is this going to hold?  I wish I had known this info before I went to their shop.  Id have told the kid to add a little muscle to that torque.

Last edited by Greg B (5/16/2024 6:12 AM)


If multiple things can go wrong, the one that will go wrong will be the one that causes the most damage.
     Thread Starter
 

5/16/2024 7:41 AM  #4


Re: I took one for the team yesterday

I would have headed right back to the shop that sold the tires and alignment the first time.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

5/16/2024 8:00 AM  #5


Re: I took one for the team yesterday

I bought a set of tires for my 2005 Ram 2500 a number of years ago, and the shop included a "free" alignment.  They called and told me the truck was ready and when I got there, the rep said they couldn't do the alignment because the ball joints were too worn - and it would be $600 to replace them.

I said "no thanks", and asked for a $75 credit on the tire bill (the cost of the alignment on their "prices" poster behind the counter), since they weren't going to do it.  I guess I was a "Karen", but it was an excellent debate, with their manager finally getting involved.   I got my $75 credit, paid my bill, and took the truck to the alignment shop I normally use and trust.  They had no issues with doing the alignment.

I came out ahead, learned not to use that business, and had some fun in the process.


Founding Member of the Perpetually Bewildered Society
 

5/16/2024 8:50 AM  #6


Re: I took one for the team yesterday

I use to not get an alignment every time.  Always I didn’t need it or they just wanted my money. Now I’m all for having the alignment done or at least checked.

 

5/16/2024 11:34 AM  #7


Re: I took one for the team yesterday

I had a set of tires put on one time and the guy told me my steering rack was leaking (WRX) and needed to be replaced.  I usually don't let on that I'm car savvy until its to my advantage, so I let him dive deep down the rabbit hole.  A reman rack was going to be $850, plus installation and it would need an alignment after. so over $2,000 by the time all was said and done.  I asked him how he determined the rack was leaking.  He said the fluid level in the reservoir was low and the rack had oil on it.  So I asked if he actually looked at the oil.  He was puzzled, so I told him the oil was from a typical Subaru valve cover leak that had since been fixed.  If he'd checked he would have seen the oil was brown, not red, and that the fluid in the PS reservoir had been at the level it was at now since I bought car 15 years ago (it was between MAX and MIN).  The car still has the original rack in it with 218k miles.  I replaced the inner and outer tie rods and replaced the bellows some years back because one of the bellows had a tear.  Still handles like a slot car, and the steering has no dead spot on center.  I think at this point we all know knowledge is power.  I think we also know most shops are dishonest. 

 

5/16/2024 3:58 PM  #8


Re: I took one for the team yesterday

TKOPerformance wrote:

The car still has the original rack in it with 218k miles./// Still handles like a slot car, ///I think we also know most shops are dishonest. 

Hear hear. I have an OT car with 217k on it (160k by me) and the only time I had to do a driveway alignment on it was after I hit a pothole obscured by standing water. This car hasn't fallen out of spec. I've avoided the tire shop shenanigans by buying my tires online and going to an installer who doesn't play that game. 
 


69 SCJ Mach1 Acapulco Blue/Black Ram Air  65 Fastback 422W C4 Disk brakes, 9in
 

5/16/2024 4:22 PM  #9


Re: I took one for the team yesterday

I don't understand how they can calculate that small of an angle with something that clamps onto a tire rim?


1966, vert, 347 stroker, T5z, 4 wheel disc, pb, 3.70 LS 9", EPAS
 

5/17/2024 5:11 AM  #10


Re: I took one for the team yesterday

KeithP wrote:

I don't understand how they can calculate that small of an angle with something that clamps onto a tire rim?

Same way they got the base of the pyramids within 1" of level over 1,000 feet: a water bubble doesn't live.  The alignment rack is really just to ensure they are starting from a level surface.  You can do the same thing at home a couple different ways (I use the Frastrax setup), provided you are on level ground or can compensate for any out of level (with the Fastrax you zero the level on the ground before setting caster or camber).  The vehicles I've aligned have handled great, had proper tire wear, and held their alignment.  I also get the specs I want, not what some machine says its "supposed to have. 

 

Board footera


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