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5/08/2015 1:28 PM  #1


Another question for engineering types, drilling a steering arm hole

How much material would you want on either side of a 1/2" hole if you drilled a new steering arm hole indicated by the red dot below??  Steering arm is about 1" wide and about 3/4" thick.


I love the rack and pinion I put in the Galaxie however I can't ever leave anything alone.  There is always a better way to do things.  With that being said I am pondering getting back the little bit of turning radios I lost (about 12%).  with that said MS made a suggestion on another post some time back about shortening the steering arm.  If I move the hole in 1" I would gain about 18% more turning radios than it currentlyin other words 6% more turning radios than the car came with the OEM steering.  The shape of the spindle would allow me to drill a new hole and use a heim joint with a 1/2" bolt but I am concerned there is not enough material there.  thoughts??


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5/08/2015 3:15 PM  #2


Re: Another question for engineering types, drilling a steering arm hole

I think if you look at the picture you posted you are staring at the answer.  Look at the cross section where the current bolt hole is and I would think that you would need that amount or more since you are shortening the arm.  If you have a sacrificial spare you may want to look at cutting and re-welding.  There were a series of posts a while back on someone who modified a pitman arm for a home-built P/S mod and from what I could see, they did a good and safe job.  With proper welding, heat treatment, etc., you may end up with a better/safer arm than drilling through a somewhat narrow cross-section.  But I'm sure others have opinions to offer - I just thought I'd throw the first one out.

 

5/08/2015 3:24 PM  #3


Re: Another question for engineering types, drilling a steering arm hole

search for a Mechanical Engineering design guide.  The hole already there meets theses min specs.  I would use that a min guideline. They already took into account the various forces that will be applied to the material during it's id'ed lifetime.  Forces = stress, strain, thermal cycles and vibration,,,  Engineers also use a min of 2x life  (breaks but not safety critical) to 4x life (life safety)    There's other reasons for failures but the joke in my business is it's impossible to design for "stupid"     

 

5/08/2015 4:09 PM  #4


Re: Another question for engineering types, drilling a steering arm hole

One rule of thumb is to never do anything to your steering or your brakes that will reduce their safety integrety.  I belive the spindle steering arm is forged to provide the proper grain structure.  Unless you can duplicate the mass, metalurgy, grain patterns, and yield strength, it might not be a good idea to modify it.

 

5/08/2015 4:22 PM  #5


Re: Another question for engineering types, drilling a steering arm hole

I personally wouldn't do it.

 

5/08/2015 4:26 PM  #6


Re: Another question for engineering types, drilling a steering arm hole

How would the length of the steering arms compare as to the stock spindle, the LTDII spindle or a Granada spindle?   I wonder if any one in particular would accomplish the same thing for you.   


If multiple things can go wrong, the one that will go wrong will be the one that causes the most damage.
 

5/08/2015 5:21 PM  #7


Re: Another question for engineering types, drilling a steering arm hole

If you are swarn to doing it I would fish plate a piece of 3/16 material compatable with that arm, the length and width of the arm widening the fish plate to mimic the original piece on the end,a piece of cake for a professional  welder.....jj. 


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5/08/2015 9:57 PM  #8


Re: Another question for engineering types, drilling a steering arm hole

More than anything this was just an exercise in mental activity.  I didn't figure there was enough material there.  The only thing I thought that might make it work would be the 1/2" hole being strait rather than the tapered hole, part of the reason the OEM mount is bigger is the hole is 5/8" at the fat end.  

I though about some welding or using a reinforcing plate that also bolts on using the OEM hole.  Most importantly I don't want to compromise the steering arm strength.  
 


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5/08/2015 10:51 PM  #9


Re: Another question for engineering types, drilling a steering arm hole

GPatrick wrote:

I think if you look at the picture you posted you are staring at the answer.  Look at the cross section where the current bolt hole is and I would think that you would need that amount or more since you are shortening the arm.  If you have a sacrificial spare you may want to look at cutting and re-welding.  There were a series of posts a while back on someone who modified a pitman arm for a home-built P/S mod and from what I could see, they did a good and safe job.  With proper welding, heat treatment, etc., you may end up with a better/safer arm than drilling through a somewhat narrow cross-section.  But I'm sure others have opinions to offer - I just thought I'd throw the first one out.

That was me and thanks for the compliment. 

Daze, I think you have two considerations:  you need enough steel around the hole and you need a machined surface.  I think you also have two ways to accomplish that: you could cut it and weld it like I did my pitman arm, or you could drill the hole where it needs to be and run some beads around the sides of the hole for strength, and the top so it can be machined.  In this case, I'd do the latter since the former requires making a jig to hold everything in place.  I'm not a pro welder so I took my pitman arm to a pro and had him preheat it to 450 F.  As soon as he was done, I buried the pitman arm in kitty litter so it would cool slowly.  Were I at home, I'd have popped it into a preheated oven and gradually reduced the temperature.  Also, as I noted I'm not a pro welder, but I do know that a special rod is needed for optimal strength.  I seem to remember 7018, but double check me. 

BTW, don't forget that many aftermarket suspension and driveline components are welded and no one gives them a second thought.  Do a good job and it will be safe.

Last edited by jkordzi (5/08/2015 10:54 PM)


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5/08/2015 11:39 PM  #10


Re: Another question for engineering types, drilling a steering arm hole

I considered your planned mod but bailed out.  I would be 'unsettled' by the quality of the welding, the heat treatment of the forging, and hardening cracks from the drilling.
Went for this instead, purely for the shortening of the steering arm.  Have not got it yet, kinda annoyed that Dr. Gas is just not answering phone, replying to left messages, or emails...
http://www.drgas.com/Ford-Bump-Steer-Corrector-Kit_p_19.html
 


1970 coupe  302 T5 Titanium Smoke 8.8 3.73 tru-trak  and 1969 Mach1 351W Black Jade PS PDB FMX
 

5/08/2015 11:48 PM  #11


Re: Another question for engineering types, drilling a steering arm hole

Not on 60s ford spindles but on earlier 56 ford spindles I've seen it done to them. But the few that I've seen they heat up the arm and flatten it out and then drill out the new hole. Most times or they just drill it out. I would think you'd be fine there's several other spindles out there that have far less material thickness and have large wholes for the tie rods.  on newer ford and some gms spindles they have have a straight hole for the tie Rod. So I don't see a problem with it.  Down side how ever you might have to move the rack assembly forward to accommodate the for shortening the steering arm.  Also if you have shortened the steering arm enough you could even use a Ford Taurus rack and pinion escourt or even a later j rack with end mounted tie rods. The later j rack puts out 6" 1/2" less then the earlier center mount jrack.

Last edited by True74yamaha (5/08/2015 11:55 PM)

 

5/08/2015 11:58 PM  #12


Re: Another question for engineering types, drilling a steering arm hole

SA69Mach wrote:

I considered your planned mod but bailed out.  I would be 'unsettled' by the quality of the welding, the heat treatment of the forging, and hardening cracks from the drilling.
Went for this instead, purely for the shortening of the steering arm.  Have not got it yet, kinda annoyed that Dr. Gas is just not answering phone, replying to left messages, or emails...
http://www.drgas.com/Ford-Bump-Steer-Corrector-Kit_p_19.html
 

 
I give them an gold star for effort but I take it away on the flaw I see in the product.  It uses a straight bolt in a tapered hole that to me isnt well thought out.

 

5/09/2015 8:57 AM  #13


Re: Another question for engineering types, drilling a steering arm hole

Could the arm be machined parallel on both side and then make a piece that mounts inboard but sandwitches the steering arm, then welded, bolted or both. Would have to shorten up some threaded section of either the rack or tie rod end. But if mounting the tie rod end hole inboard loses some turning radius due to mechanical interference then I guess the idea was no good haha.

 

5/09/2015 9:14 AM  #14


Re: Another question for engineering types, drilling a steering arm hole

Typical minimal margin around a hole is 1/2 the diameter of the hole.  Whether I would trust that on that piece, I don't know.  It works fine on brake brackets, but the forces are more in line with the thick part of the bracket, where yours would be acting on the thinnest cross-section of the material. 

Maybe a better choice might be to remove the entire radius arm and fabricate a new one that bolts on to the brake mount bolts.  Many cars use that type radius arms. Then you could set your ackerman up to match the car and the R&P. 
I worked on a late model Buick once that had stamped steel SPINDLES with the axle welded in place... It also used a bolt-on radius arm.


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5/09/2015 10:53 AM  #15


Re: Another question for engineering types, drilling a steering arm hole

Give it a swipe with a file, and if it cuts easily, it is not hard. If it is hard and the file won't touch it, I would go to plan B. If is cuts fairly good with a file, it is still ductile and should be tough enough based on base material and not heat treat. I have seen many steering arms re-drilled or cut and welded without issues. I cut off the end of some and drilled and tapped for a screw in end so I could adjust them.It worked great, even when I crashed and bent everything on the track. The screwed in joint held up perfectly, but the spindle broke off at the inner bearing.

 

5/10/2015 8:19 PM  #16


Re: Another question for engineering types, drilling a steering arm hole

MustangSteve wrote:

Maybe a better choice might be to remove the entire radius arm and fabricate a new one that bolts on to the brake mount bolts.  Many cars use that type radius arms. Then you could set your ackerman up to match the car and the R&P. 

I think I am going to do just that.  If you remember, several years back I made some brackets to mount SN95 calipers on to a set of 72 country squire spindles (basically Galaxie spindles but machined to mount disc brakes)  Any way I never installed them, mainly because I didn't like the OEM country squire rotor size difference compared to the SN95 rotor size.  Long story short I found some rotors that will fit the spindles and are closer to the SN95 rotors in diameter and thickness, so I am going need to modify the brackets, at the same time I can easily cut off the steering arm and make my own.  I think this should be a very fun project.  I love design and problem solving part of this hobby!!!
 


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