Impossible to answer, too many variables. MS rule of twice as long and twice as much seems off as well these days.
Walk away quickly, don’t look back.

Last edited by Rudi (12/02/2020 3:49 PM)

I was once advised by a pretty smart dude to spend the money for a transport of a rust -free Texas/Arizona/NM/type  Mustang than to buy an east coast "well it is a little rusty butt" money hole.  (Too bad I didn't heed that advice}
Pretty good advice................Go to Bako and hook-up with RPM about that salvage yard guy he knows.
6sal6

F or T = RUN FAST

This has been my experience the past 30 years.
Especially if cheap or with only upper 1/2 of car...right Sal?

A good rule of thumb is that rust is like an iceberg.  What you see is about 10% of it.  Its costly to have repaired correctly, or time consuming to do yourself.  IMO, I'm with josh-kebob on this one, walk away and find something better.  The only rusty vehicles I fix are ones I already own, where there's sentimental value, etc.  Over the years I've parted out at least a half dozen vehicles due to rot.  Just not worth the rabbit hole. 

Agree with all of the above.  Getting rust free, or nearly rust free car, is the way to go.

I refueled the problem...various projects are showing up and shared with my wife.
She loves Mustangs and of course Fastbacks are her favorite...at least we agree to avoid the deep rabbit hole...perhaps a prairie dog hole instead...that might be worse.

Thanks guys!

Last edited by Nos681 (12/02/2020 11:43 PM)

Here's option B: if the rust bucket has a good title buy it for cheap and rebody the car with a Dynacorn body.  Last I checked they were about $15,000.  Honestly, if you had to pay for rust repair, or place a reasonable value on your time, you probably end up even or bucks ahead.  Then you can start day one setting everything else the way you want it (suspension, brakes, drivetran, etc.) because you aren't constantly being bombarded by having to spend money fixing yet another unexpected problem on a 50 year old car. 

It's a loaded question...any car can wind up with too much time or money........headaches may come later. 

Agree with the others about more money for a better car at the start, but if you're willing to look down the rabbit hole!!!! For a rusty car, dismantled will be in your favor for inspections to get an idea of what needs to be replaced or repaired. The ability to catalog parts prior to making the deal is a must. Its amazing how they can $5 and $10 you to death with these things. 

Can you weld or are you willing to learn??? What is your comfort level for aligning body panels?? Mine was low. Really cheap car + quality replacement panels + and your time will creep real close to the new body. 

Cheap car + quality replacement panels + and a body shop could surpass the cost of a new body quickly. Neither option includes paint. 

Do you want to do it for the experience??
 

MS wrote:

TKOPerformance wrote:

Here's option B: if the rust bucket has a good title buy it for cheap and rebody the car with a Dynacorn body.  Last I checked they were about $15,000.  Honestly, if you had to pay for rust repair, or place a reasonable value on your time, you probably end up even or bucks ahead.  Then you can start day one setting everything else the way you want it (suspension, brakes, drivetran, etc.) because you aren't constantly being bombarded by having to spend money fixing yet another unexpected problem on a 50 year old car. 

That is illegal.

I thought that too initially, but it led me to research it thoroughly.  What I discovered was that the legality of it depends on exactly what you do, and to an extent where you are.  There is no hard and fast Federal law that clearly defines what constitutes a vehicle, only what constitutes a VIN.  So, yes, it is illegal to simply remove the VIN tag and affix it to another vehicle.  On the other hand, if some of the original sheetmetal to which the VIN is stamped/riveted is grafted onto the new body it is not expressly illegal, because there are no laws stating how much of the vehicle has to be present in order for it to be considered the original vehicle.  There are at the very least thousands, if not millions of cars out there that had so much sheetmetal replaced as to basically be an entirely new body.  Furthermore the law does not actually differentiate between sheetmetal and other parts, rather it uses the vague term "vital components" without clarifying what that means.  I think you could consider an engine a "vital component" as a vehicle is pretty much useless without one.  Ditto a trans, rearend, etc. 

Now State laws may clarify this point, or make it even more convoluted depending on the State.  Many State laws actually state that the frame is the vehicle, so if you for example replaced the entire body on your rusted out CJ5, but kept the original frame you would not have done anything even considered a gray area legally.  Begging the question what about all these vehicles we see on TV where they replace the frame? 

What this means to a car without a separate frame is subject to interpretation.  But you have to consider this: what if you had a vehicle hit hard in the front that you repaired basically replacing the whole front end.  Later it gets hit hard in the back end and basically all of that gets replaced.  Maybe later you're super unlucky and roll it, get T-boned, etc.  But you just keep fixing it.  At some point almost none of the original body remains.  At what point is it no longer the original car?  How is choosing to do the same thing all at once due to rot really any different? 

The place where the law is crystal clear is when it comes to the commission of fraud with the intent for financial gain.  It is illegal for example to buy a wrecked Shelby and a regular Mustang that's the same body style and make a new Shelby out of the Mustang using the Shelby VIN, etc., then sell the car as a legit Shelby to an unsuspecting buyer.  However, you are also committing fraud if you replaced a lot of stuff and sold the car as "all original".  I 100% do not condone either of these examples, but they happen all the time, and its why you have to be so careful buying a classic, and much more so the higher the purchase price climbs.  One of the biggest issues is that its really hard to prove who's responsible for the fraud on a 50+ year old car.  The guy you bought it from could just kick that can down the pike (I didn't do that, must have been the guy I bought it from, man, now I feel cheated!).  Unfortunately for the consumer who got ripped off courts of law deal in what can be proven, not what we know.  All that unscrupulous seller has to do to completely dodge any blame is introduce reasonable doubt.  He lies, the guy before him lies, the guy before that guy is dead, bunch of conjecture, nothing that's going to be considered evidence.  You'll only be entitled to monetary recompense if you can prove the seller acted in bad faith.  A civil court may see it differently, but they also may not. 

All in all its a convoluted area of legal grayness that may just be best avoided.  The other option is to just title the new body as a kit car, etc.  That's probably safest and definitely the most ethical, simply because you don't know what will happen to the car after it leaves your possession.  I still think this is a viable option though, especially if you check and see what rust free fastbacks are commanding now.  So what its not an original.  Most people don't care that your '32 Ford hot rod is original.  The older these cars get the more that's going to be the norm I think.  The real ones are just going to be priced too far out of peoples' budgets.  Plus, if you aren't going to use 75% of the car anyway, why pay for outdated brakes, suspension, seats, engine, trans, etc. that's all just going to end up on Craigslist or eBay anyway? 

TKOPerformance wrote:

MS wrote:

TKOPerformance wrote:

Here's option B: if the rust bucket has a good title buy it for cheap and rebody the car with a Dynacorn body.  Last I checked they were about $15,000.  Honestly, if you had to pay for rust repair, or place a reasonable value on your time, you probably end up even or bucks ahead.  Then you can start day one setting everything else the way you want it (suspension, brakes, drivetran, etc.) because you aren't constantly being bombarded by having to spend money fixing yet another unexpected problem on a 50 year old car. 

That is illegal.

I thought that too initially, but it led me to research it thoroughly.  What I discovered was that the legality of it depends on exactly what you do, and to an extent where you are.  There is no hard and fast Federal law that clearly defines what constitutes a vehicle, only what constitutes a VIN.  So, yes, it is illegal to simply remove the VIN tag and affix it to another vehicle.  On the other hand, if some of the original sheetmetal to which the VIN is stamped/riveted is grafted onto the new body it is not expressly illegal, because there are no laws stating how much of the vehicle has to be present in order for it to be considered the original vehicle.  There are at the very least thousands, if not millions of cars out there that had so much sheetmetal replaced as to basically be an entirely new body.  Furthermore the law does not actually differentiate between sheetmetal and other parts, rather it uses the vague term "vital components" without clarifying what that means.  I think you could consider an engine a "vital component" as a vehicle is pretty much useless without one.  Ditto a trans, rearend, etc. 

Now State laws may clarify this point, or make it even more convoluted depending on the State.  Many State laws actually state that the frame is the vehicle, so if you for example replaced the entire body on your rusted out CJ5, but kept the original frame you would not have done anything even considered a gray area legally.  Begging the question what about all these vehicles we see on TV where they replace the frame? 

What this means to a car without a separate frame is subject to interpretation.  But you have to consider this: what if you had a vehicle hit hard in the front that you repaired basically replacing the whole front end.  Later it gets hit hard in the back end and basically all of that gets replaced.  Maybe later you're super unlucky and roll it, get T-boned, etc.  But you just keep fixing it.  At some point almost none of the original body remains.  At what point is it no longer the original car?  How is choosing to do the same thing all at once due to rot really any different? 

The place where the law is crystal clear is when it comes to the commission of fraud with the intent for financial gain.  It is illegal for example to buy a wrecked Shelby and a regular Mustang that's the same body style and make a new Shelby out of the Mustang using the Shelby VIN, etc., then sell the car as a legit Shelby to an unsuspecting buyer.  However, you are also committing fraud if you replaced a lot of stuff and sold the car as "all original".  I 100% do not condone either of these examples, but they happen all the time, and its why you have to be so careful buying a classic, and much more so the higher the purchase price climbs.  One of the biggest issues is that its really hard to prove who's responsible for the fraud on a 50+ year old car.  The guy you bought it from could just kick that can down the pike (I didn't do that, must have been the guy I bought it from, man, now I feel cheated!).  Unfortunately for the consumer who got ripped off courts of law deal in what can be proven, not what we know.  All that unscrupulous seller has to do to completely dodge any blame is introduce reasonable doubt.  He lies, the guy before him lies, the guy before that guy is dead, bunch of conjecture, nothing that's going to be considered evidence.  You'll only be entitled to monetary recompense if you can prove the seller acted in bad faith.  A civil court may see it differently, but they also may not. 

All in all its a convoluted area of legal grayness that may just be best avoided.  The other option is to just title the new body as a kit car, etc.  That's probably safest and definitely the most ethical, simply because you don't know what will happen to the car after it leaves your possession.  I still think this is a viable option though, especially if you check and see what rust free fastbacks are commanding now.  So what its not an original.  Most people don't care that your '32 Ford hot rod is original.  The older these cars get the more that's going to be the norm I think.  The real ones are just going to be priced too far out of peoples' budgets.  Plus, if you aren't going to use 75% of the car anyway, why pay for outdated brakes, suspension, seats, engine, trans, etc. that's all just going to end up on Craigslist or eBay anyway? 

That is waaaaaay to much legality for me to read through. I think of a body change is like speeding, it's only illegal if you get caught. LOL
 

6sally6 wrote:

Several years back........I saw a suh-wheeeet two-tone 56 Ford Crown Vic a Ford mechanic drove to work. Really nice looking driver.
He told me it was ORIGINAL paint/chrome etc.!!............It was an Arizona car.
He said the interior was totally burnt up from the sun/heat but the only rust on the 56 was inside the rear wheel well there was some surface rust about the size of his hand.
All the trim/stainless looked great!
Sure made a believer outta me........
6sal6

Its true, cars in AZ do not rust.  My sister-in-law used to live out there and we visited at Christmas one year.  My father-in-law and I went to a local place called The Toy Box that dealt in classic cars.  He knew the owner so we got to look at stuff back in the shop.  There was a Mustang on the lift that still had the factory exhaust system on it.  None of the cars had any rust anywhere.  It was crazy.  All the rubber, vinyl, etc. gets torched from the sun, and the paint takes a beating, but no rust out, structural issues, etc.  They do know that though, so its not like you get a screaming deal on a rust free car...

If one can not perform all the metal work needed then they will end up spending way more than the car will be worth.   

I bought a very rusty coupe that most would walk away from but I got such a good deal I couldn’t pass it up.  Add to that my son is helping me so I get to teach him all this fun stuff of replacing frame rails and more.  Otherwise I would have walked away from this rusty project and I can do all the work myself.  Take your time and search every where every day and something that fits your needs will pop up.    Now is a really good time time to buy.