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  •  » Base timing question

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    3/28/2021 11:48 AM  #1

    Rudi
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    From: Stuck in the 50's Welland Ca
    Registered: 4/01/2013
    Posts: 3,975

    Base timing question

    Is there a maximum number of degrees that can be dialled in? At 10 to 12 BTDC my idle is really rough, smooths right out at 14-16
    I’m playing around with the timing  chasing a ping on application of throttle in third gear at low revs. No noticeable knock at any other rpm.

    Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
     

    3/28/2021 12:16 PM  #2

    RTM
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    From: Cape Coral FL
    Registered: 5/22/2019
    Posts: 1,720

    Re: Base timing question

    I use to set it all by ear.  If I had hard starts when hot, then it was advanced to much and any sort of pinging means you either need a higher octane fuel and or retard the timing.  Do you have a stock distributor or after market?  Bigger cam and carb?

     

    3/28/2021 12:59 PM  #3

    Rudi
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    From: Stuck in the 50's Welland Ca
    Registered: 4/01/2013
    Posts: 3,975

    Re: Base timing question

    TDC on this 331 has been verified and new timing tape installed.
    The distributor is a Crane optical trigger, with electronic vacuum and advance settings.
    Holley 670  Street Avenger has been working perfectly.
    Cam is a Comp 35-440-8, 200o -5500, 110 LSA, 220 duration in&out @ .050” lift.
    The engine always had this slight knock condition, it starts hot or cold perfectly going through the three stages of idle on warm up.

    Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
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    3/28/2021 1:32 PM  #4

    Chaplin
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    Registered: 3/14/2015
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    Re: Base timing question

    You can go that high on initial timing, but if you do, you need to make sure you limit your total advance accordingly.

    I had an engine in another car that had a pretty big camshaft in it, and I think I set that one at 16 or 18 degrees initial. Doing that really helped clean up and smooth out the idle. But I also changed the bushings in the distributor to limit the mechanical advance to 20 degrees so that my total advance wasn't more than 36 or 38 degrees.

     

    3/28/2021 2:14 PM  #5

    Rudi
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    From: Stuck in the 50's Welland Ca
    Registered: 4/01/2013
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    Re: Base timing question

    That sounds reassuring Chaplin.
    Cutting back on the total is not an issue since the distributor has 9 electronic settings for total and what rpm it comes in at. Also has 3 settings for advance curve and amount.
    Soon as the rain here clears up I’ll try to get back at it.
    Thanks for the insight guys, much appreciated.

    Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
       •Thread Starter
     

    3/28/2021 4:24 PM  #6

    6sally6
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    From: Surfside Beach,SC
    Registered: 4/02/2013
    Posts: 6,853

    Re: Base timing question

    You rode in mine.........(remember?!) 
    I have  total of 36*(using the tape)........lightest springs so it's all in by 2000RPM (or sooner)
    No knock and spins good when hot.
    Sometimes.....You gotta 'pull-it-out-and-play-with-it" to get the curve you want.  (I saw a commercial about that , I think!?! )
    Anywho...
    Every engine is different......all according to how efficient the heads/burn is, I think
    6sal6

    Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
     

    3/28/2021 4:33 PM  #7

    Rudi
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    From: Stuck in the 50's Welland Ca
    Registered: 4/01/2013
    Posts: 3,975

    Re: Base timing question

    6sally6 wrote:

    You rode in mine.........(remember?!) 
    I have  total of 36*(using the tape)........lightest springs so it's all in by 2000RPM (or sooner)
    No knock and spins good when hot.
    Sometimes.....You gotta 'pull-it-out-and-play-with-it" to get the curve you want.  (I saw a commercial about that , I think!?! )
    Anywho...
    Every engine is different......all according to how efficient the heads/burn is, I think
    6sal6

     
    How could I forget that ride Mike, it contributed to my tinnitus.
    As for pulling it out and playing with it, I can’t, arthritis in both hands and wrists 
    Do you think Edelbrock Performers are classed as fast burn or efficient heads?

    Last edited by Rudi (3/28/2021 4:34 PM)

    Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
       •Thread Starter
     

    3/28/2021 4:41 PM  #8

    6sally6
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    From: Surfside Beach,SC
    Registered: 4/02/2013
    Posts: 6,853

    Re: Base timing question

    Yep!
    They ain't  AFR butt......they ain't stock by any stretch either. Instead of 36-42* they MAY make the best power at 32-34*. That's where the "teenager feel'in" comes in! (Set it at 36-38* and "TAKE-IT-FER-A-TEST-RUN"....bring it back and see how34-36* "feels"!) Remember it's 'best' to do FULL-POWER-RUNS when doing the "testing".
    Maybe smoke a cee-gar when you're do'in it.
    6s6

    Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
     

    3/29/2021 5:03 AM  #9

    TKOPerformance
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    From: Newark, DE
    Registered: 12/15/2014
    Posts: 7,499

    Re: Base timing question

    Given your setup I would start at 32 degrees of total timing ad go up from there, but its unlikely it would want or tolerate more than 36. 

    Initial timing is only part of the puzzle.  How much mechanical advance does it have?  Can the mechanical advance be modified for more or less advance?  Usually you want lower initial timing for easy hot starts, good idle, etc.  You make up the rest with mechanical advance.  With an LSA that tight the idle is going to be a bit rough.  I don't think that's timing related. 

     

    3/29/2021 7:00 AM  #10

    RTM
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    From: Cape Coral FL
    Registered: 5/22/2019
    Posts: 1,720

    Re: Base timing question

    Well I’ve never ran anything other that stock.   But when I would chase problems I would unplugged the advance all together to see if things changed.

     

     

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